Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Greg Ohlendorf on June 13, 2010, 12:34:52 AM
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Well, here are the photos from the second course at the Prairie Club, the Dunes Course. This track is very different from the Pines as it is set on a totally different part of this property. It begins away from the clubhouse, starting after almost a mile drive to the first tee. We heard two estimates on the length of the total walk, 9 and 11 miles in all. On the day we played, the course was pretty wet and it was walking only. This is an athletic walk. 36 walking at the Prairie Club in one day would be quite a workout!!
The Dunes, as I mentioned in my post on the Pines Course, may well be the widest course I've ever seen. It is also extremely long with the back tees coming in at 7,583, the next set at 7,355, and the third at 6,838. There are even tees behind the tips, so technology isn't getting the Dunes anytime soon. This course is not quite as grown in as the PInes, but still very playable.
Pics follow. Enjoy!
Greg
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1516.jpg)
Dunes #1 Par 4, 441 from the second set (which is the set I will give all the yardages from)
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1526.jpg)
Dunes #2 Par 4 444 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1527.jpg)
Dunes #2 Green
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1533.jpg)
Dunes #3 Green Par 5 554 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1540.jpg)
Dunes #4 Par 3 145 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1545.jpg)
Dunes #4 Green (from the back of the green looking back to the tee) This green is huge!!
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1548.jpg)
Dunes #5 Par 4 326 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1554.jpg)
Dunes #6 Par 5 542 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1561.jpg)
Dunes #7 Par 3 161 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1567.jpg)
Dunes #8 Par 4 481 yds Dogleg left (one of the craziest holes and second shots to the green I've ever seen)
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1570.jpg)
Dunes #9 Par 4 473 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1585.jpg)
Dunes #10 Par 5 576 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1589.jpg)
Dunes #11 Par 4 364 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1602.jpg)
Dunes #12 Fairway Par 5 48 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1610.jpg)
Dunes #13 Par 4 429 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1617.jpg)
Dunes #14Par 3 157 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1629.jpg)
Dunes #15Par 5 602 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1641.jpg)
Dunes #16 Par 3 201 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1647.jpg)
Dunes #17 Par 4 443 yds
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz190/Gohlendorf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Dunes/IMG_1656.jpg)
Dunes #18 Par 4 468 yds
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Fantastic stuff Greg...thanks for posting!
How about that left bunker on #11...wow! :o
Looks like you're enjoying the golf out there alot. I'd love to hear which course you liked better as they seem so different.
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Looks like MacKenzie's version of Prairie Dunes. Looking forward to seeing it next month.
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Pat,
At this point, I'd give the lean to the Pines. I just think it routes much better. The Dunes requires some healthy walks and or rides between greens and tees. When I think of "go out and find the holes" courses, it is always possible to "find" a better hole by looking farther afield, but it can cost the routing by doing so. The Pines just seems to flow better and the pine trees do add another texture element to the design. Graham Marsh told me he really didn't do much to layout the course. I think he picked out some excellent holes by not "doing much"!
Also, when you go out and see the Dunes, pay attention to the difference between the teeing angles. The back two sets were often at very different angles, sometimes 30 -40 yards apart. Not necessarily in total distance, but in placement. At times, the holes were very different as a result, but there were occasions I liked the look from one of the angles much better. It is an interesting concept though nonetheless.
These are both very good courses and worthy of a trip out for all GCAers. Let the debate begin.
Greg
Greg
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Anyone familiar with the Pines and Dunes courses know if the bunkers were purposefully designed to match each other, as well as be different from Ballyneal & Sandhills?
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The bunker boys on the Lehman 'Dunes' course were also past worker for the famed Tom Doak crew. Will Smith and Kyle Franz.
While they were field directed by the architects, I do think they had some of their own input. I think Will can post on here and give you the real story on the bunkers. It is just good to see the place open and I trust it plays very different each day.
One of the things I saw during construction was indeed the varying angles presented with the tee locations. If you took a NO TEE MARKER approach and just played from where you wanted to on each hole, according to the wind conditions, you would likely play from different tees. I suspect that over time certain tees will be under-utilized as people are like cattle and they tend to follow the easiest route. I may be wrong with the use of carts in play.
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Thanks for the pictures. This reminds me of my trip to Nebraska a few years back. After about 3 days, I said to someone the most amazing thing about Nebraska is its sky. It changes every 3 hours. Summertime fun in Nebraska is farmers and cowboys sitting in a bar at 7 PM and watching the weather radar on TV, observing which area that evening is getting the biggest rain and electric show.
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Lynn you are so right about the big, ever changing sky in Nebraska. Times have changed since my childhood, with the internet and weather.com etc. Now we pretty much know what is coming. I remember, way back when, when a storm was brewing, we actually had chairs and a rocker on the porch, we would watch the pending storm and clouds come and go. The light for picture taking is wonderful when a storm has just passed. If you take a look at all of the photos of the Sand Hills Club, Dismal River, Wildhorse, and the Prairie Club you will be amazed at how interesting the clouds are in the photos. With the advent of the digital camera we can all take some pretty nice pictures and enjoy the clouds.
It is interesting that Chris Brands, the co-designer of the Dunes Course, has a great facination with the weather and the clouds. I think he could sit and watch them all day. Here are a couple from construction at TPC:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g142/farrisgolf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Lehman/Jan0920081664.jpg)
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g142/farrisgolf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Lehman/Jan1020081631.jpg).(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g142/farrisgolf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Lehman/20080609249.jpg)
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g142/farrisgolf/Prairie%20Club%20-%20Lehman/20080609159.jpg)
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Here are two videos of about the design and look of the Dunes course at the Prairie Club.
Interview with Tom Lehman:
http://punchbowlgolf.com/2008/10/tom-lehman-at-the-prairie-club/
Interview with Kyle Franz:
http://punchbowlgolf.com/2009/04/kyle-franz/
As for the similarities between bunkering styles, I believe that the Marsh look evolved during construction as Jack Dredla, who has worked with Coore & Crenshaw in the past and did a few brief stints on the Dunes course, went over to the Pines course to help. The technique of chunking was utilized more and more on the Pines course after Jack moved over and that crew observed the bunkers of the Dunes course and also what Jim Wagner and his merry band of Scots were cooking up on the horse course.
- Will
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Am I the only one that is a bit underwhelmed with the two courses we have seen? Like a poster from another thread, this is a lot of coin to travel and play these courses and they just are doing it for me.
I will never understand the Lehman and March selections when Doak, Hanse, DeVries, etc. were available to wow us and draw us to the middle of know where.
I am going to sit and wait until the Hanse course gets opened in a year or so before I head out for a visit.
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Steve,
Wow, that is amazingly close minded. With that attitude, the greater golf world would have very little product to play from the like of Doak, Hanse, and Devries. Good thing there were some inquisitive golfers who decided to check these no names out.
Tom Lehman is not a no name, but his architectural skills are less than well known and I can tell you he is not your normal player architect. He is extremely passionate about it and spent a great deal of time on site both during the routing and construction of the course. He has a great eye and attention to detail. The result is a wild, unique course that should be very playable. Go see it before you make any judgments.
- Will
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The Tang boys and I just left Valentine after getting rained out and unable to play the course. The Lehman course was completely saturated from heavy rains. I guess the Pines drains a little better and might be open for play later today. Similar to Greg, the Lehman would've been open to walking only. They said it will be this way on The Lehman course probably til July 1st. It would've been nice to know this upfront, especially since we had a fourth making the 11-hour trek from Chicago who has a bum leg from a motorcycle accident and could only play with a cart.
Plan B: Back to Holyoke.
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What grass types are used for fairways and greens? Are they fescue or bent?
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I really have to question if that 8th hole design will stand. But 13 looks like a puzzle that one would look forward to over and over again. I also wonder if 18 (with the short sighted and unfair point of view of commenting on pictures) looks in the photos a little bland. Yet, it obviously is difficult based on yardage. It just seems in the photos to finish flat and long. But, I can't wait to see these courses in person as we all know photo observations can be so misleading.
I agree that it might be best for mid-skill level players, 10-15 handicaps to mix and match tees for maximum enjoyment, particularly in winds over 10mph. Although, it looks like there is lots of room out there to roam and stray with off line slices and hooks.
Will the bunker fence post revettments hold up? They seem sparingly used and seem to give great texture and distinction to some of the apprearances. But, how are they actually anchored? They appear to be somewhat pounded into the sand and linked together with some chains. But, are they also somehow secured in horizontally with sleepers? Can erosion and burrowing animals get behind them and cause spaces or gaps leading to them leaning then falling willie nilly? I don't see that as a big deal to reset them, but just wondering...
Sorry for Jim Colton's rainout. It must really be extreme with so much sand under the course yet still too wet to play. Who'd have thunk that!
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The Tang boys and I just left Valentine after getting rained out and unable to play the course. The Lehman course was completely saturated from heavy rains. I guess the Pines drains a little better and might be open for play later today. Similar to Greg, the Lehman would've been open to walking only. They said it will be this way on The Lehman course probably til July 1st. It would've been nice to know this upfront, especially since we had a fourth making the 11-hour trek from Chicago who has a bum leg from a motorcycle accident and could only play with a cart.
Plan B: Back to Holyoke.
Jim, did you get to play Pines, Horse? Maybe it's in another thread.
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Tony,
We didn't get to play any golf. We left and headed back to Holyoke and were greeted with the best weather I've had in any of my 8 trips there.
Jim
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RJ,
I concur with your thoughts on 8. I am very interested in what others will think after they have played it. My son hit a great drive and still had a crazy second shot into the green. It's like some over the pond course second looks but might be dramatic here for many.
Jim,
Sorry you guys got washed out. The Dunes is quite a walk tho. Glad you had great weather in Holyoke.
And Steve,
I agree. These are not second tier courses even tho the designers aren't those mentioned in the earlier thread. Who cares tho. Many great courses are designered by other than "name" designers. Oakmont, PV, pebble to name a few!
Greg
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Re: holes 7 and 16:
Is that just the photographer being clever, or are those two holes really set up to look like they are only 50 yards long?
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Pretty sure the Horse Course crosses over through the Dunes.....I think it's the Championship Routing.
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Or better yet, I think we can safely assume that what isn't in the pic is the balance of the tee box complex, which frankly isn't that interesting.
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Tony,
We didn't get to play any golf. We left and headed back to Holyoke and were greeted with the best weather I've had in any of my 8 trips there.
Jim
Jim, the good with the bad. Sorry nothing from you on PC, but glad BN weather was so good when it appeared some the week before had it not so good. Ah, the midwest (CO?) and weather.
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... Many great courses are designered by other than "name" designers. Oakmont, PV, pebble to name a few!
Greg
Sorry, it seems that PV had an all-star list of contributors. Pebble over the years has had similar with upgrades, and Oakmont was not the Oakmont we know when it was first completed.
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How about that left bunker on #11...wow! :o
Clear evidence of bunker fetishism. ;)
Was it your picture taking style to emphasize the bunkers, or is the course as over bunkered as the pictures indicate?
Couldn't the builders learn something from this?
(http://www.golfclubatlas.com/images/SH3t.jpg)