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Benjamin Litman

  • Karma: +0/-0
New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« on: February 17, 2015, 11:42:49 AM »
After our glorious tour of Barnbougle and the Melbourne Sandbelt, we made our way to Sydney. We focused mostly on culture, even managing to catch an opera at the Opera House (yes, I have a whole set of pictures of it if you're interested). But I couldn't pass up Australia's Cypress Point, so we took a taxi on our final day out to La Perouse to play the famed New South Wales Golf Club. We played in the afternoon (my preferred time to golf), so most of my pictures are of holes, or vistas, where the sun was setting behind me. That means I didn't photograph several holes from certain angles, including the renowned par-3 6th from the tee, as it faced directly into the sun (but I did photograph it from behind the green, with the sun at my back).

Before I get to the holes and my take on the course, two conditioning-related comments. First, NSW was the first course we played where we could tell it was winter--the greens, as you'll be able to tell in the pictures, were a different shade of green than the fairways and tees. Second, the bunkers at NSW are an altogether different animal than the bunkers in the Sandbelt--at NSW, most are Scottish-style pot bunkers with revetted faces, and the sand is far, far softer than the virtual hardpan in the Melbourne bunkers. To say I had trouble adjusting would be an understatement.

Wind is ever-present at NSW. When we played, it came off the ocean hard (I imagine this is the "prevailing" wind, but can't confirm), so the holes routed away from the ocean (1, 6, 7, 9, 15, 17, and 18) played incredibly short and those routed toward the ocean (in particular, 2, 4, 5, 10, 13, 16, and, yes, the driving range) played incredibly long. The routing is such that, as at Muirfield, the wind affects no two holes the same way--for example, each of the four par-3s plays in a different direction. NSW has three distinct areas, each covering approximately one-third of the holes: (i) the area in front of the clubhouse (covering holes 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, and 18, all without views of the ocean), (ii) the area in the middle of the course (covering holes 4, the tee shot on 5, the green on 7, 8, 11, 12, the tee shot on 13, the approach and green on 15, the tee on 16), and (iii) the area by the ocean (covering the approach and green on 5, 6, the tee shot on 7, the approach and green on 13, 14, the tee shot on 15, the approach and green on 16, and 17). Although the course doesn't look like a true links course (with the exception of Castle Stuart, I can't think of another links course with such hilly and grand terrain), it walks and quacks like one, so that's good enough for me.

Despite the wind, NSW is very playable (and fun to play), owing largely to its wide fairways and minimal rough (at least when we were there). The green are relatively flat, but they are surrounded by falloffs--especially at the front--and pot bunkers galore. Few of the greens are "framed" well, but I assume that was intentional to allow for maximum exposure to the wind. The all-world 5th and 6th rightfully get most of the attention, but the course has several other tremendous golf holes--in particular, 7, 11, 13, and 16, although 13 and 16 probably each lose some acclaim because they are so similar in how they look and play. The course feels somewhat cramped at the start--largely on account of the relatively narrow, but very solid, 1st, and the blind tee shot from amid the bushes on 3--but opens up significantly beginning with the approach on 3. Overall, NSW is a great golf course in a stunning location, but I think it is properly ranked behind Royal Melbourne, Kingston Heath, and Barnbougle Dunes in the pantheon of Australia's greatest golf courses. MacKenzie might well have said that the setting at NSW was rivaled only by that at Cypress Point, but, to me at least, he did not take advantage of that setting as well at NSW. The views are indeed spectacular, but, with the exception of 5, 6, and 13, the routing of the holes to maximize the land and the views leaves at least something small to be desired. But as MacKenzie once said, "Beauty means a great deal on a golf course, . . . and there are few first rate holes which are not at the same time, either in the grandeur of their undulations and hazards, or the character of their surrounds, things of beauty in themselves." At NSW, it is the latter--i.e., the "character of their surrounds"--that does most to make the course and its holes beautiful.

New South Wales, Hole 1 (fairway)


New South Wales, Hole 4 (fairway, looking backward to the left with the par-5 8th's fairway (working up over the hill) in the middle and the par-5 12th's fairway (working down from the hill) to the left) [N.B.: This is the very open "middle" area of the course.]


New South Wales, Hole 4 (green)


New South Wales, Hole 5 (tee)


New South Wales, Hole 5 (fairway immediately beneath the top of the hill)


New South Wales, Hole 5 (fairway upon cresting the hill) [N.B.: Like the first time I played Bethpage Black and turned around to look at the 4th while standing on the 3rd green, this view is one of the great "wow" moments in all of golf.]


New South Wales, Hole 5 (left fairway bunker) [N.B.: As I understand from the official 2004 course review here on GCA, this sandy area to the left of the 5th fairway has been restored in recent years. I can attest that it now looks and plays perfectly.]


New South Wales, Hole 5 (green) [N.B.: Like the center-fairway bunker at Barnbougle Dunes's 3rd hole, these two Principal's Nose-like bunkers are actually set a ways from the edge of the green, making any shot from them far longer, and more difficult, than it first appears.]


New South Wales, Hole 6 (view behind the tee)


New South Wales, Hole 6 (green, looking backward)


New South Wales, Hole 7 (green, looking back down the fairway, with 5 fairway on the left)


New South Wales, Hole 10 (green)


New South Wales, Hole 11 (tee)


New South Wales, Hole 13 (fairway)


New South Wales, Hole 14 (view to the left of the fairway and backward)


New South Wales, Hole 14 (view to the left of the fairway and forward)


New South Wales, Hole 15 (fairway)


New South Wales, Hole 15 (looking back down the fairway from behind the green)


New South Wales, Hole 16 (right rough, with green off in the distance on the left)


New South Wales, Hole 16 (fairway) [N.B.: This hole looks and plays very much like 13, with the sole material difference being that the green is slightly more sheltered from the wind off the ocean.]


New South Wales, Hole 17 (view looking right from the tee)


New South Wales, Hole 17 (green; not pictured are bunkers left and right of the green)


New South Wales, Hole 18 (green, with the fairway off to the right)


« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 04:25:38 PM by Benjamin Litman »
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

Thomas Dai

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Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2015, 11:51:42 AM »
It appears as if you had the course all to yourself.....and very nice it looks too. Thanks for sharing.
Atb

Will Lozier

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Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2015, 12:04:09 PM »
The turf looks amazing!

John Kavanaugh

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Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2015, 01:18:06 PM »
The photos with the golfer in them distracts from what could have been a great tour.

Peter Pallotta

Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2015, 01:45:53 PM »
The photos with the golfer in them distracts from what could have been a great tour.

Geez Louise, Ben - I have to admit I was just gonna post exactly the same thing. I'm telling you: this tour and the others on the first page continue your outstanding work; just excellent - thank you (especially for this one -- my goodness gracious, NSW went right to the very top of a very select list of 'courses that best embody and represent their landscapes/countries of origin'). But while it is lovely to think of your significant other having such fondness for you and for getting a lot of action shots, most of the time I was kind of hoping you'd just get out of the way!  :)

Thanks again - top flight stuff.

Peter

Benjamin Litman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2015, 01:48:43 PM »
Thanks, Thomas and Will. Now that you mention, yes, we were pretty much all alone on the course, although we did play through two groups on the front nine.

John: I'm sorry you feel that way about the pictures with me in them. As I explained in one of my Barnbougle tours, I include those pictures--which are stills of video taken of me by my girlfriend with her iPhone--when I don't otherwise have pictures, from my camera, of the corresponding shot/hole. I decided that the benefit of including them, even if they are obviously not of the same quality, would--especially on this site--outweigh the cost of doing so. Believe me, I am all about artistic, well-composed photographs--and I take great pride in and have very high standards for mine--so please know that my inclusion of the video stills is done only with the best intentions of comprehensiveness and like aims. If enough people on here tell me they'd rather that my photo tours be of the course only--even if that means having no pictures of certain shots or certain holes--I am more than happy to oblige. Now that I see Peter has chimed in with similar thoughts, maybe I should conduct a poll.
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

Greg Taylor

Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2015, 02:30:40 PM »
Great pictures!

And I remember the exact same feeling at Bethpage on the 3rd green and turning around....!

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2015, 02:40:45 PM »
It may just be me, but I cannot imagine anybody being rude enough to complain about a few pictures with agolfer in them.
When somebody has taken such alot of time out of their busy schedule to provide us with a visual feast, someone has the nerve to complain????

wow that was not poilite where I grew up, somebody get a llife.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2015, 02:48:22 PM »
It may just be me, but I cannot imagine anybody being rude enough to complain about a few pictures with agolfer in them.
When somebody has taken such alot of time out of their busy schedule to provide us with a visual feast, someone has the nerve to complain????

wow that was not poilite where I grew up, somebody get a llife.

Well said, Michael. He really is a miserable little SOB. this would have been a great thread were it not for a spiteful troll, IMHO.

Ben, I appreciate the photo tour and am grateful for a chance to see another course that I've not had an opportunity to play. Much appreciated.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 02:50:47 PM by Brian Hoover »

John Kavanaugh

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Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2015, 02:54:26 PM »
Let's not make this about me but I just did a quick count and found 19 ass pics of Ben and one side pic.  After slightly more than 100 posts could we agree that we have seen about enough of his ass.  It is distracting from excellent tours.  How about a new pose at least.

I have talked privately with Ben about this and we both agree that this is constructive criticism. 

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2015, 03:03:01 PM »
Let's not make this about me but I just did a quick count and found 19 ass pics of Ben and one side pic.  After slightly more than 100 posts could we agree that we have seen about enough of his ass.  It is distracting from excellent tours.  How about a new pose at least.

I have talked privately with Ben about this and we both agree that this is constructive criticism. 

May have been a good idea to keep that "private" talk just that private dont you think!!!!!!

Benjamin Litman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2015, 03:10:20 PM »
Michael and Brian: Thanks for the support. It's true that John and I have messaged privately about the matter. He's entitled to his opinion, and I welcome the feedback (although I wonder how he ever watches golf, given that almost every shot, with the exception of putts, is filmed from behind the golfer). As I explained to Michael, I include the video stills of me only once I've finished compiling my tours and figure out where the gaps are (i.e., which holes have no pictures). Because I include them FOR the people on this site--in the belief that GCA'ers want to see, as opposed to just read about, holes/shots on given courses--if the GCA'ers would rather not see them--even if that means not seeing those holes/shots at all--I am more than happy to oblige. If it were up to me, I would actually omit those video stills, as I am well aware that their quality is not on a par with the rest of my photographs, and would never find their way into calendars and flip books I create for friends. In short, I include them not out of vanity (i.e., not for me) but out of a desire to be comprehensive (i.e., for you). I am just trying to pay back (and forward) all that I've gained from this site to date.

In any event, I'll bear this feedback in mind in the future, as I create and post more tours. Thanks, all.

Until then, I hope we can avoid cluttering these threads with these types of comments. I am happy to answer similar inquiries or concerns privately.
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2015, 03:10:54 PM »
The photos with the golfer in them distracts from what could have been a great tour.

John,

I appreciate Ben's recent efforts to document courses in Australia, but I agree with you. Pictures should be of the golf course and not be cluttered with shots of someone playing.
Tim Weiman

James Bennett

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Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2015, 03:30:44 PM »
I must check John Kavanaugh's last golf photo tour and see how it is done.
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

John Kavanaugh

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Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2015, 03:36:47 PM »
I must check John Kavanaugh's last golf photo tour and see how it is done.

I've never taken a photograph while golfing in my life.  I did recently videotape my swing out on the range and if anyone is interested in a copy PM me your phone number and I will text you a copy.  I'm sure you could pull a embarrassing frame.

James Bennett

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Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2015, 12:03:35 AM »
John

good reply.

I must say that after I posted this retort, I thought about why it should be ok for me to critique golf architecture when I have been involved in very little (some, but very little). Why then could I then critique a person about their photo comments just because I haven't seen their photo work. 

So, I think my comment about your photo tour was 'a little short'. Sorry.

I'll pass on seeing the practice fairway shots - I rarely find practice fairways interesting.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

RJ_Daley

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Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2015, 04:00:29 AM »
It is one year ago today that I played there with Andy and "Pup".  It was my first round after coming from our northern hemi winter and not having swung a club in nearly 4 months.  Whilst one would like to play well at such a special course and place, the day was magical.

La Perouse was one of the best walks I ever had on a golf course.  But, for some reason I was directionally disoriented because I had a strong sense I was looking due north as we played into #5 hole when it actually faces South across Botany Bay.  If I had to be placed in a penal colony, being confined to the La Perouse property would be a life sentence I could do...  ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2015, 04:28:58 AM »
Australia's Cypress Point, if only, the 6th is a massive disappointment and there are a number of OK holes. NSW is certainly worth seeking out and fun to play but it's not in the same chapter as CPC.
Cave Nil Vino

Benjamin Litman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2015, 04:58:52 PM »
RJ: Despite my normally excellent sense of direction, I, too, had the same feeling of directional disorientation while playing NSW--and even these last few days in putting together the review/photo tour. Only when I remembered where the sun had set at the end of my round did it all make sense.

Mark: Even though I haven't played Cypress Point, I agree that NSW--the golf course, that is--doesn't measure up. As I noted in my review, I don't think the routing, while very good, takes advantage of the views/surrounds as well as possible. And I'm glad you brought up 6; I was actually reluctant to criticize it in my review, but I agree that, while a good hole, it is certainly not all it's cracked up to be. First, it's not as picturesque as the stunning setting would allow (compare the 5th). Second, the playing strategies of the hole are overrated. Because the prevailing wind is off the ocean (i.e., to the left of the tee), the water doesn't really come into play--yes, you might need to start the ball slightly over the water/rocks to have it work back to the green, but having the ball end up in the water is, except in the case of a mishit, unlikely. And while the natural miss, given the water and the wind, is to the right of the green, the up and down from there--despite the two bunkers that lurk--is not actually that hard; because you're playing back into the wind, the fear of hitting it over the green into the water is again minimized. In short, I enjoyed the hole, but I was in no way wowed by it.

All: As you can now see, I decided to remove the video stills from my NSW photo tour. (I will likely do the same with my previous tours from Streamsong, the Melbourne Sandbelt, and Barnbougle, and certainly for tours in the future). After hearing from a number of you, and thinking the matter over myself (with sage advice from Peter, to whom I'm grateful), I've decided that my photo tours are best without the video stills (although I still might, in the future, include actual camera pictures of holes with people in them to give a sense of scale).

My reasoning was as follows:

(1) all along, given my high standards for my photographs, I've preferred my photo tours without video stills;

(2) I've nonetheless included them, after determining where the "gaps" in my tours were, for the sake of comprehensiveness (so that GCAers could see as many of the holes/shots as possible);

(3) but, of course, there were reasons the "gaps" in my tours existed--namely, that, at the time, I didn't find a given hole/shot particularly appealing enough, either visually or strategically, to take a real picture with my camera;

(4) feedback suggests that there are two types of reactions: (a) a negative reaction, in that the video stills detract from the photo tours and (b) no reaction, in that the video stills make no difference;

(5) because feedback does not also suggest that there is a third type of reaction--namely, a positive one, in that the video stills enhance the photo tours on the theory that some view of a given hole/shot, even one with a golfer smack in the foreground, is better than none at all--the logical conclusion is that the video stills are not beneficial for GCAers, who are the people I'm preparing my photo tours for in the first place;

(6) Ran's "official" GCA course reviews/photo tours (i.e., the ones under "Courses by Country") do not include pictures of every hole/shot, choosing to focus only on "holes of notes," and no one seems to complain about a lack of comprehensiveness; and

(7) if, in fact, some people do have a positive reaction to the video stills because they cherish comprehensiveness, those people can simply message me privately if they would like to see video stills of holes/shots that do not otherwise appear in my photo tours.

Many thanks again to everyone for the helpful feedback.

"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2015, 05:25:17 PM »
Benjamin, you certainly are an accommodating chap.  As far a I'm concerned, if you think a photo capture from video shows the right aspect of the course's architecture/design or setting, I am good with whatever photo you select to show just what you want to share, even if there is a classic 'ass shot' as we say.  As much effort as you have put into organizing, captioning and posting them, I just grateful you have that much patience and enthusiasm. 

My wife also accompanied me on my first round at Barnygoogle Dunes.   That way I was more focused on taking in the entire setting and try to focus on making a few golf shots.   So on that particular round, leaving the operation of a camera to her was a good way to get pics and focus on playing the course.  However as luck would have it, my playing companion for the round was a gent from farm country in Vic, and his wife, also a non-golfer followed him.  Well, during the stunning walk, the two ladies were hanging several yards back and into their own non-golf conversation, and she only remembered to snap a few pics...   ::)  ;D

Another playing quirk to my experience was how they carry a divot sanding bucket/pail as they walk.  I haven't played anywhere where they do so.  I to apologize to my playing companions several times as I kept setting it down to take the shot, then forget to carry it along as I slung the bag back over the shoulder to walk to hit the next shot.  Thus, I kept running back several yards to pick the pail back up.  I think it drove Andy and Pup a little nuts.   :-\ 

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2015, 06:27:14 PM »
Dick

if you want some pics of any of the courses you visited, let me know.  I'll send you a disk.  You know how to contact me.

Dick and Benjamin

your misorientation at NSW would probably be due to the sun generally being to the north of you (in the southern hemisphere) whereas you are used to having the sun to the south of you.  On a similar vein, in OZ we value houses with backyards that have a northerly aspect whereas you prefer those with a southerly aspect. In OZ, the southerly aspect yards are covered in shade, especially in winter.

As an aside, my moment of greatest misorientation occurred at Singapore zoo.  No significant landforms to orient yourself with, a sun that basically stayed directly overhead all the time (when it appeared from the heavy cloud cover) and so throughout the circular nature of the Singapore zoo walk, you never knew which way we were going.  It is the only time that I can recall where I was wrong by 180 degrees on directions, and my wife was also absolutely right.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Peter Pallotta

Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2015, 07:02:13 PM »
Mr Superficiality here:  

It might have something to do with Benjamin's excellent photography, but I can say without a shadow of doubt that NSW is for my tastes the most breathtakingly lovely, and most consistently lovely, golf course I have ever seen. Perhaps a little less superficial: I think it is so consistently and breathtakingly lovely for two main reasons: 1. it seems to have sprung out of the exact same prima materia and aesthetic sensibility that Nature had bestowed on the State for which it is named, and 2. its form(s) and function(s) seem so profoundly and inextricably linked as to (almost) erase that very distinction/dichotomy. I am gob-smacked. I am legless. What a vision.

I find myself thinking of three other courses that have struck me in the same way, if not to the same degree (and in photos only, hence the Mr Surface tag): Ballyneal, Walton Heath and Wolf Point.  All of of their time and place, remarkably so, and all blurring/making almost one form(s) and function(s). Perhaps Time will 'soften' a little the edges of a course like Old Macdonald and I can add that to the list.    

Peter  
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 07:39:03 PM by PPallotta »

Joe Hancock

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Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2015, 07:10:42 PM »
And, to add to the hyperbole that Mr. Pallotta rightfully heaped on, I will say that the turf looks so perfect to me, I almost sward.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Peter Pallotta

Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2015, 07:22:32 PM »
 :)

It's so good I'm almost sure that we were intended to play golf on turf exactly like that, and that we all would be playing on it except for some early 20th century and gca equivalent of original sin:

Salesman: 'It's no problem at all - just cap the clay with a little bit of sand, spread out my newest cultivar, make sure you got wall to wall irrigation and then turn on the taps!"

Adam the Architect: 'Oh, I don't know about that.'

Salesman: 'What's the matter with you -- do you have something against progress?'

Adam: 'Naw, but, well -- it doesn't sound quite right'.

Salesman: 'Listen to me, son - don't listen to those old Puritans of golf! You'll never have a flourishing career doing it the old way'.

Adam: (Pauses, and makes the mistake of thinking about it)

Salesman: 'Trust me. You'll thank me for it, even sooner than you think. And as your business starts to grow and you become the new breed, the go-to guy, your wife will thank me too. I'll go further - golf will thank you.'

Adam: 'Well, I'm glad you said that last part -- because, really, what's most important to me is the game of golf.'

Salesman: (Soothingly, as he hands him a contract) 'I know it is, son. I know it is....'
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 07:39:31 PM by PPallotta »

Sean_A

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Re: New South Wales GC (Review and Photo Tour)
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2015, 03:50:15 AM »
Benjamin

Thanks for the tour.  I must say this is the only tour of the course which has piqued my interest.  While I don't care one way or another about ass pix, I appreciate the tour more with less photos...thanks for that.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

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