[Peter Pallotta]

I was thinking this winter's day of my one visit to Crystal Downs. My host took a long time with me, and before we even set foot on the golf course we drove slowly along the winding roads through the cottages/homes and he shared with me the history of the community. If memory serves, the whole tract of land on the lakes was purchased (and held 'communally') by the Congregationalists early in the last century to serve as a bucolic summer retreat for members/teachers/pastors coming from the big cities, and as a place for summer camps for young people where they could be refreshed physically, emotionally and spiritually. And, maybe because the tour was so lovely, it felt to me -- in later playing a round -- that these origins/this history was somehow still manifest and still had influence, i.e. that the essental atmosphere of the Crystal Downs community pervaded the golf course itself, its design and playablity and ethos and quality, all of it very peaceful and low key.   What other courses have a strong and pervading atmosphere, and what do you think characterizes and explains that particular atmosphere?

Peter

[Mark McKeever]

Another great example of ambiance is Myopia Hunt Club in Hamilton, MA.  As you drive up past the polo fields and equestrian facilities, you know you crossed onto special property, and in many ways a step back in time. 

The atmosphere is quiet, low key, and unassuming.   You can walk through history and look around in the clubhouse to see all the great moments in the game of golf that have taken place there, yet it remains as a family oriented, private club that isn't trying to prove anything to anyone.

Mark

[Jamey Bryan]

Although lacking in the spiritual nature, Yeaman's Hall seems to me similar as described.  Divorced from the real world.

Jamey

[BCrosby]

Peter -

There is indeed something about a long entrance road that sets a tone ... Magnolia Lane is Exhibit A-1.

Bob

[David_Tepper]

The Meadow Club (Fairfax, CA) is a special place. From "downtown" Fairfax, you drive up a steep, twisting, narrow road to reach the golf course, which makes you think the course will be quite hilly.

Once you get to the club, you find it is indeed set in a large meadow and the course has only modest contours. In addition, just about the only man-made structures visible from the course are the clubhouse and the golf shop. Finally, deer and wild turkeys roam the course mostly unconcerned by the passing golfers.   

[J_ Crisham]

The Dunes Club has a very relaxed vibe from the minute you enter the hard to find gate. The model for how a modern private golf club can succeed- it's all it needs to be in every sense. At the end of your day you look back and remember just how fun golf can be.

[Paul OConnor]

I'm not sure the Congregationalists would approve of the current green speeds at Crystal Downs.  Maybe a just a bit too pretentious and out of place.

[Tony_Muldoon]

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,28076.0.html

Sadly I missed the posts as you walk from the clubhouse to the course.  Inscribed are the names of past members who were lost in the Great Wars.  Even so, I can hardly think of a more Atmospheric place to Golf.

[Sean_A]

I agree with Yeamans Hall.  Spangles is also right, Brancaster has Atmosphere. 

Muirfield oozes Atmosphere as well...same for Sandwich.  Sandwich is very cool in that the house is a sort of garden house house totally separated from the course.  The rooms and history on the walls doesn't hurt either.   

New Zealand has bags of Atmosphere as does Little Aston.  Both of these feel cutoff from their bust surrounds...sort of a private park. 

Ciao

[David Ober]

I think Elie has a wonderful atmosphere. We got rained out of playing there, but I just loved the whole "community center" feel of the place. I would spend lots of time there with my family if I lived nearby.

Also Dooks had great atmosphere. Very welcoming and "homey" and I just loved the course.

[Jon Cavalier]

Myopia is an excellent example. Just an amazing experience from the moment you turn into the drive.

My personal favorite is Fishers Island. An "entrance drive" doesn't get much better (or longer) than a boat ride over to the island. Once you arrive, the beauty of the island and the understated clubhouse only add to the experience. And the course itself certainly doesn't hurt. A day at Fishers Island is a unique and wonderful experience.

[Mike Hendren]

.

[Ben Kodadek]

Mountain Lake Golf Club.   Oozes A. 

[Peter Pallotta]

Bogey - I can't see the photo, but I think I probably wasn't clear in my initial post -- since I too would be very comfortable at Mike Young's course. The atmosphere at CD that I appreciated so much had nothing to do with its private club status or even the excellence of the architecture. (I enjoy the nice things in life, but usually feel as uncomfortable as a clam in the hippest restaurants or best stores or most exclusive clubs.)  What I was trying to suggest is that at CD, its roots, its foundational purpose, seemed to still permeate the place and the golf course itself (save for perhaps, as Paul suggests, the green speeds). In the case of CD, that foundational purpose seemed to be rooted in wholesome renewal of mind and spirit, and a peaceful recreation for the body. Is it a coincidence that the course itself -- you can see almost all of it from the top of the hill -- provides that kind of expansiveness and peace, and fun playability for all. (Is it a coincidence that the Congregationalist founders didn't have built instead a Pine Valley or an Oakmont or a Merion or an NGLA or an Augusta?). I was hoping that others could chime in with analogous experiences, i.e. where the foundational/aspirational roots of a course created an Atmosphere that is still palpable.

Peter

[jeffwarne]

Bogey,
Aiken Golf Club-great example
cool pub, friendly pro shop

Palmetto-beer on the locker room porch
Tom Moore-nuff said

Another example?
The Bridge
kids, families, world class water views, hip lunch scene, car racing

Many of the examples cited are bit too stuffy for my taste-but to each his own

I love a muni with draft beer where there's a big game at noon, and there's some guy who makes the teams and divvies the money..
and dozens of side bets with junk, dots, and bits that you're clueless about until your third time 'round (then you fully embrace them)

[Mark McKeever]

Myopia is an excellent example. Just an amazing experience from the moment you turn into the drive.

My personal favorite is Fishers Island. An "entrance drive" doesn't get much better (or longer) than a boat ride over to the island. Once you arrive, the beauty of the island and the understated clubhouse only add to the experience. And the course itself certainly doesn't hurt. A day at Fishers Island is a unique and wonderful experience.

Agreed Jon.  The ride across the Island is very cool too.

[Colin Macqueen]

Peter,

I may have misinterpreted what you were getting at but surely St. Andrews Old course lying under the wing of that "auld, grey, toon" epitomises what you have felt at Crystal Downs.

The ambience and atmosphere of golf, the course and the town and The University, to my way of thinking, just meld into one another. And, yes, the founding fathers of St. Andrews University going back to the early fifteenth century may well have had to have incorporated and embraced the rudimentary course that was there by the middle of fifteenth century!

So my vote goes for St. Andrews as "its roots, its foundational purpose, seemed to still permeate the place and the golf course itself.

Cheers Colin

[Adam Clayman]

Peter, Upon first seeing that stone (And Iron?) entrance gate at CD, the sensitive virgin's jaw should drop in awe. Knowing that past the few houses, a Mackenzie/Maxwell masterpiece awaits, makes the short journey transformative.  The anticipation is a form of suspension of disbelief. No?

Come to think of it, many of the finer places have this same transformational zone.  At Cypress Point, it doesn't truly happen, gcawise, until after your first tee shot and you walk down the hill, through the hedge, and cross the road into a different realm. (Since you're already on the peninsula, just getting to the CPC gate is all foreplay.) SFGC is another with an amazing TZ.

On a related note; Driving to Bandon, from Portland, one gets a feel for the environs. The peaceful verdant settings dot the journey. Many of the real eye catchers involve water, of some sort. Ponds, creeks, etc. Perhaps that's why I disagree so much with Sandy Tatum about the pond on The Trails. That look is replete in that region.

[Tim Gavrich]

Like Ben K, I think the atmosphere at Mountain Lake is tremendous.

Somehow I think it's easier for older clubs to have great Atmosphere. What more recent clubs have it? I would nominate Bulls Bay and Secession.

[Sean_A]

Bogey - I can't see the photo, but I think I probably wasn't clear in my initial post -- since I too would be very comfortable at Mike Young's course. The atmosphere at CD that I appreciated so much had nothing to do with its private club status or even the excellence of the architecture. (I enjoy the nice things in life, but usually feel as uncomfortable as a clam in the hippest restaurants or best stores or most exclusive clubs.)  What I was trying to suggest is that at CD, its roots, its foundational purpose, seemed to still permeate the place and the golf course itself (save for perhaps, as Paul suggests, the green speeds). In the case of CD, that foundational purpose seemed to be rooted in wholesome renewal of mind and spirit, and a peaceful recreation for the body. Is it a coincidence that the course itself -- you can see almost all of it from the top of the hill -- provides that kind of expansiveness and peace, and fun playability for all. (Is it a coincidence that the Congregationalist founders didn't have built instead a Pine Valley or an Oakmont or a Merion or an NGLA or an Augusta?). I was hoping that others could chime in with analogous experiences, i.e. where the foundational/aspirational roots of a course created an Atmosphere that is still palpable.

Peter

Pietro

The only places I can think of with a general sense of rooted community are true commom land courses (or those where locals banded together with thier land)...except these don't come with much of a sense of spiritual renewal.  Plus, the houses don't tend to be places where I am at peace because they tend to be awful buildings which don't set well with me.  On the other hand, the common land courses create a sense of belonging for all simply because golf is not the exclusive purpose for the land.  In this way Minch Old is very special and it does have a lovely which can be used instead of the grubby house.  Of course, this means all the common land users come together in breaking bread as it were. 

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

The three courses that immediately came to mind whan I first read this thread have already been mentioned (The Old Course, St Andrews, Muirfield and Elie).  Of those the one that best achieves the atmosphere Peter seems to be referring to in his clarification is Elie which, as David says, really does feel as if it is at the centre of the community.  As you approach the club you pass the 9 hole kids course, the Elie Sports Club and its tennis courts and the Pav (a popular cafe) all of which are, during the summer at least, buzzing with activity, mums, dads and kids all engaged in enjoying themselves.  The course is, as has frequently been mentioned here, right in the middle of the village and at various times in the round you will see (and sometimes be have to wait for!) walkers, frequently making their way to the beach.

[Lyne Morrison]

Peter,

To sense and experience this quality is surely one of golf's greatest gifts. 

When the very essence of a club and course pervades in such a way, we are momentarily exposed to the most enduring, yet seemingly rare, characteristics of the game.

Lyne

[John Foley]

Kittansett is the quintessential summer by the sea in NE experience. The old club house w/ no AC, the stone parking lot the bench by the pro shop to change your shoes all add to it. Love the long drive in where you glimpse part of the course and then as you round the curve near Butler Pt you see the exansive area near the clubhouse and the pulse quickens. A great experience.

[Carl Rogers]

Ballyhack, interesting well designed warm well sited clubhouse, modest but well done cottages, cannot say enough good things about ALL the staff, the greenskeeper keeps 10+ goats that roam across the 18th fairway to the putting green, food and drinks are good + reasonable $ ... do not know how it could get any better anywhere else

[Charlie Ray]

As a newer poster on GCA these are the type of threads that confuse me.  On one hand, and judging from Ran’s latest instructions, we are attempting to discuss the merits of architecture;  and on the other, as human beings who enjoy the pleasures of the good things in life,  we tend to get caught up in the aesthetics/atmospheres/peripherals not of the golf courses but in the secondary elements  (food, drink, locker rooms, environment, swimming pools,  etc.).

Does the dress make the woman appear more beautiful?  Of Course. 

Two restaurants serving the same dish; most would prefer receiving the dish with great service and clean/elegant setting. 

Thus, is it possible to discuss architecture apart from all the garnishes?   (I know this has been discussed before on GCA,  but with the latest discussions of ratings and such it seems as a pressing issue)

As a second year Architecture student (the brick and mortar variety)  14 years ago, I remember losing a competition because I had not incorporated landscape ( shrubs, trees)  in my presentation.  When I argued with my design professor about the purpose of the assignment,  which was to design and present a 4000 square foot dental office,  he informed me that design was second to presentation; and if I never learned that lesson I would be a starving Architect. 

I would imagine that the Alotian Club would be example 1-A of this principle. 

The month of March a few years back was unseasonably warm and dry in Columbus, OH.  A friend who is a member of the Golf Club began to invite me to play the course in the afternoons.  The club was still officially closed for the winter, thus no tee marker, scorecards, facilities (food, restrooms, caddies etc.)  After a few rounds in a week or so, he called and asked if I wanted to play,  I quickly said ‘sure.’  But then he said lets go play Raymond Memorial,  ( a municipal RTJ track)  when I asked him why we don’t go back to the Golf Club (I asked as nicely as I could)  he said that he would want a snack at the turn. 

All this gripping is to ask,  doesn’t Atmosphere play a much bigger role than any of us will give it credit for? 

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