[Patrick_Mucci]

to the tactical signals that the architect and architectural features send to the eye ?

In the last few months I've played with a number of golfers who had to ask the caddy where to hit their drives.

Other than distance, directionally, it seemed obvious.

Do golfers lose strokes because they're blind to these signals, causing them to mismanage their games ?

How subtle can an architect be before the features he creates fail to register with the average golfer ?

Must every hole and/or feature have flashing neon signs directing the golfer ?

Should yardage booklets with hole schematics be banned ?

 

[Jim Nugent]

Should yardage books -- with or without hole schematics -- be banned?  This would require golfers to judge distance themselves. 

[Tom_Doak]

Sometimes I do think that yardage books with details of how to play the holes, defeat the purpose of the subtler aspects of the course design.

However, the main function of yardage books in the modern age is to remind the magazine panelist how great every hole was.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Pat,

I doubt most really key in on the strategic elements, even the simple ones like if there is a pond right, and you slice, aim way left.......

My mentors used to debate the subtly aspect frequently.  One liked it, but the other figured if it wasn't big and bold, average golfers wouldn't notice it at all.  He was probably right and he also figured no sense in designing for the 1% who would notice, or to try to reeducate the entire golf world.  So, that's how their designs rolled.

Of particular interest to me was their take on the double fw, which was always clearly defined, whereas a TD, and others, would have a wide fw with subtle slope dividing the two main areas, and try to fool the golfer into not noticing, which is also a great idea.

You present the case for NOT banning yardage books - they don't really seem to help anyway, so what's the big deal?  You know the old saying about a hole only being blind once?  For some golfers, even a visible fw is for all practical purposes blind all their playing life.... It reminds me of my Dad coming home and telling Mom he had to fire a long time friend at work.  She said, "But, he had 12 years experience!"  Dad replied that it turns out, he had the same year of experience 12 times over........

[Bill_McBride]

I think the average golfer aims for the center of the fairway on his tee shot and aims for the pin on his approach shot.  It's a recipe for mediocrity but there you go. 

I have a large collection of yardage books, love to go back through them and replay the courses mentally.  Sometimes I have the book for a course I'm going to revisit!

[Niall C]

If we simply brought back directional poles in the fairway or behind greens then we could surely do away with caddies 

Niall

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think we're drifting off course.

My objection to the yardage books isn't the yardage, it's the schematics that tell the golfer that which he should discern as he's playing the hole.

It's like going to a play about an intriquing murder mystery with twists and turns and having the plot spelled out for you on a summary page.

It seems like there's no quest for knowledge and that golfers, like the younger generation, want to be force fed information that they could obtain if they were so inclined and intuitive.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Pat,

In the ease of information age, isn't this to be expected?  Can the battle to put more intrigue back in golf be won?

I have always thought that our generations courses were primarily influenced by the visual of TV watchers.  I can only wonder what courses designed for the next generations' tastes for even more "instant information" might entail.  I suspect hand held information with the hole diagrams, the current wind, uphill downhill effects, humidity, estimate of whether they are hitting top distance or some lesser percentage based on earlier shots, etc.   And, probably chips in the balls to tell them exactly how far the shot went, how it drifted, etc.

[Howard Riefs]

But what if you can't discern certain features from the tee?

I'm reminded of the first time I played Erin Hills in ~2008, when the course didn't have a yardage book or a course map on the scorecard and a caddie wasn't available that day. It was like playing the course blind.

We arrived on the tee at the par 4 second hole, a short dogleg to the right to a blind green. Where is the green? Do you try to bast it over the hill on the right? What about left? Are there any bunkers over there and, if so, where? Do I hit driver, 3W, 4i? The hole has since been re-worked over the years. It would've been helpful to have a better sense of how to play it the first time out.

[Brent Hutto]

A round of golf is not a pop-up book making a toddler go "Oooh!" when he sees the horsey rear up on page four for the fifteenth time. If you want surprises and hidden subtleties, then I guess you just need to find a lifetime's supply of courses to play once apiece. In that case by all means forego the yardage book.

Most of us find our golf game provides all the variety required to keep things interesting. I've played my home course 1,000+ times and yet today still managed to hit at least one shot to a place I've never seen a golf ball before. The desire for mystery and surprise from a golf course is a beard puller affectation.

[Steve Lang]

  oblivious? yes;  perhaps synoptically challenged is better generalization...

I became interested in gca many years ago.. to confirm the reasons why the course presented itself from different places, angles, etc., and design affected play. Hitting it where you want to is another thing for the majority.

Yardage books are now irrelevant to those with "electronic input syndrome," a SkyCaddie or other gps with hole layout or even an iPhone or such.. is preferred visual input.. not words and thought!   

[mike_beene]

TV has something to do with this.The announcers harp on how far it is to carry a certain bunker,exact yardage to the pin,etc. A lot of people who spend their round trying to figure their swing out and really do not know how far they hit a club won't go without an exact yardage.

[Pete_Pittock]

Pat,
It might not be obliviousness, but rather habit. You start asking the caddy you keep asking the caddy.

I tried to overanalyze Gamble Sands to no small aggravation.

My first St Andrews caddy and I never got on the same page. On 12 it came to disastrous results when he wouldn't tell me why the center of the fairway wasn't a good line. I still made par with a sidewise play out of the bunker.

[Padraig Dooley]

I still see many players using distance measuring devices get fooled by visuals. Even with the correct yardage they don't trust it. With all the information available the eyes will still always play a big part.

[Bill_McBride]

Pat,
It might not be obliviousness, but rather habit. You start asking the caddy you keep asking the caddy.

I tried to overanalyze Gamble Sands to no small aggravation.

My first St Andrews caddy and I never got on the same page. On 12 it came to disastrous results when he wouldn't tell me why the center of the fairway wasn't a good line. I still made par with a sidewise play out of the bunker.

My favorite caddy at the Old Course gives me a great line on 12:   Play way right toward the Eden course, avoiding that minefield of fairway bunkers and setting up a wedge down the length of the green.   Fun to watch the other guys hacking out of the bunkers. 

[Joe Hancock]

It's not forced upon any golfer to buy/ use a book of any sort. It's the golfers' choice.

I have more fun golfing w/o yardages and schematics, etc. But that's just me.

I would suggest that it takes a certain golf maturity to desire to play w/o the available aids. Novices and infrequent golfers will likely want all the help they can get.

Joe

[Tom_Doak]

Pat,

In the ease of information age, isn't this to be expected?  Can the battle to put more intrigue back in golf be won?

I have always thought that our generations courses were primarily influenced by the visual of TV watchers.  I can only wonder what courses designed for the next generations' tastes for even more "instant information" might entail. 

Unfortunately, mostly their tastes seem to run toward playing golf on their computers, or not at all.

My problem with yardage books is that it seems stupid to try to design something that will intrigue the golfer, and then hand him all the answers before he takes the test.  But, if I don't go along, the club pro writes the hole descriptions and explains one or two of them wrong 

[Bill Brightly]

My favorite caddy at the Old Course gives me a great line on 12:   Play way right toward the Eden course, avoiding that minefield of fairway bunkers and setting up a wedge down the length of the green.   Fun to watch the other guys hacking out of the bunkers.  

Bill, I figured that out after one play. First time I played the course I accidently faded one over there and it was fine, although I was in light rough. Second time I aimed there with 3 wood and had a simple 8 iron approach from the rough.

I wonder what the pros do there. Do you know? Probably just bomb it at the green.

[Bill_McBride]

My favorite caddy at the Old Course gives me a great line on 12:   Play way right toward the Eden course, avoiding that minefield of fairway bunkers and setting up a wedge down the length of the green.   Fun to watch the other guys hacking out of the bunkers.  

Bill, I figured that out after one play. First time I played the course I accidently faded one over there and it was fine, although I was in light rough. Second time I aimed there with 3 wood and had a simple 8 iron approach from the rough.

I wonder what the pros do there. Do you know? Probably just bomb it at the green.

The pros like to play the second shot from behind the green!

[Ronald Montesano]

-Golfers only have so much time, and must keep pace, Patrick. The time it takes me to unlock secrets requires opportunity for pause, which holds up the groups behind me. If I am solely out photographing the course (as I did at Fenway and Sleepy Hollow, a few years back) I am afforded that time.

-If I have a caddie, I put 100% trust in her/his knowledge. It is my way of showing her/him respect for the trade, fleeting as occupation of that trade may be. It is an exercise for me, just as the deciphering of the course's wiles is for others.

-If you eliminate yardage books, you will stunt Kevin Lynch's contribution to the world of golf. The lad has a collection, I tell you.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ron,

If I'm not mistaken, light travels at the speed of 186,000 miles per second, thus the tactical signals sent to the golfer's eye are instantaneous. 

They're discernible the moment the golfer steps upon the tee, unless the player's golfing IQ is on the very low side.

[Jeff_Brauer]

At least, its doubtful that they will ever come up with some app that will read greens for golfers.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff,

There's a reason that Merion, Pine Valley, Friars Head, Cypress Point and other courses don't have the sprinkler heads marked.

There's a reason that courses ban all electronic devices.

They want the golfer to play golf without artificial aids.

There's a purity in that endeavor.

The nonsensical position that the aids speed up play is ................. baloney.
Play has slowed down from the time before Andrews/Nicklaus began charting courses, as each and every one of these aids has come into play.

I like estimating distances, I like hitting choked down punched 4-irons from 150 yards.

I like the purity of the game, absent all of the crutches............ yardage books, GPS, laser range finders, etc, etc..

As to devices that read greens, how did you overlook Al Czervik's putter ?

I wouldn't be surprised if that's on the horizon.

All architects would benefit if schematics and artificial aids were banned.

[David Davis]

Jeff,

There's a reason that Merion, Pine Valley, Friars Head, Cypress Point and other courses don't have the sprinkler heads marked.

There's a reason that courses ban all electronic devices.

They want the golfer to play golf without artificial aids.

There's a purity in that endeavor.

The nonsensical position that the aids speed up play is ................. baloney.
Play has slowed down from the time before Andrews/Nicklaus began charting courses, as each and every one of these aids has come into play.

I like estimating distances, I like hitting choked down punched 4-irons from 150 yards.

I like the purity of the game, absent all of the crutches............ yardage books, GPS, laser range finders, etc, etc..

As to devices that read greens, how did you overlook Al Czervik's putter ?

I wouldn't be surprised if that's on the horizon.

All architects would benefit if schematics and artificial aids were banned.

Pat,

I'm sure you are partially correct here but the main reason they do not have yardages marked at these clubs is that they have excellent caddy programs and insist that golfers make use of their caddies. I think the caddies are quite good at the mentioned courses as well. What's funny is that the caddies even at courses like Garden City actually use electronic yardage devices in order to give you accurate distances.

[David Ober]

Patrick,

If you wete playing a competition or a $$$ match on a course you had never played, would you avail yourself of any and all (legal)aids?

 

Jeff,

There's a reason that Merion, Pine Valley, Friars Head, Cypress Point and other courses don't have the sprinkler heads marked.

There's a reason that courses ban all electronic devices.

They want the golfer to play golf without artificial aids.

There's a purity in that endeavor.

The nonsensical position that the aids speed up play is ................. baloney.
Play has slowed down from the time before Andrews/Nicklaus began charting courses, as each and every one of these aids has come into play.

I like estimating distances, I like hitting choked down punched 4-irons from 150 yards.

I like the purity of the game, absent all of the crutches............ yardage books, GPS, laser range finders, etc, etc..

As to devices that read greens, how did you overlook Al Czervik's putter ?

I wouldn't be surprised if that's on the horizon.

All architects would benefit if schematics and artificial aids were banned.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()