William_G

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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/architect-chosen-for-sand-valley-golf-course-near-wisconsin-rapids-b99179150z1-239117091.html?fb_action_ids=763233880373428&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B1410613555847784%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.recommends%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D

it's going to be fun to watch this project  8)


That was quick...

"Sand Valley is progressing quite nicely. So nicely, Keiser has decided to start the second course there, and has narrowed his design candidates to Tom Doak ... or the team of Rod Whitman/Dave Axland. ... Doak appears to be the frontrunner."

See page 2:  http://www.mydigitalpublication.com/publication/?i=211327&p=4

« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 09:16:28 am by William_G »
It's all about the golf!

J.D. Griffith

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2014, 07:14:27 am »
Exciting news...and it's less than two hours away!  Great times are ahead for Wisconsin golf.

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2014, 07:16:13 am »

William_G

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2014, 07:35:42 am »
thanks Pete...I did look to see if there was a post referring to this news, but didn't see it  >:(

I would like to see this site more organized by topic  :o

nevertheless, very exciting and nice to see C+C get first crack to find the best routing  8)
It's all about the golf!

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2014, 08:01:13 am »
I find it hard to believe that 80% of the 120 investors selected C&C.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 09:22:45 pm by Joel_Stewart »

Steve Lapper

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2014, 07:18:30 pm »

  Reading Mike's words closely, he "surveyed 120 founding members. I'd surmise that "survey" was merely an informal conversation that produced some form of majority support for Bill & Ben.

 I'm thrilled to know this project is going forward and C&C was chosen for the first course. I'd would be reasonable to believe that others like Jim Urbina, David Kidd and Tom Doak will likely get the next nod, when and if the business model supports multiple courses. Mike also went out of his way to talk with Jack Nicklaus and Tom Fazio so I'd not be surprised if they get a tract in the future.

  I wish all involved great luck and continued success.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 09:48:08 pm by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Rees Milikin

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2014, 07:30:16 pm »
This is going to be a great project and I am excited to see what they put together.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, 07:35:12 pm »
Mike also went out of his way to talk with Jack Nicklaus and Tom Fazio so I'd not be surprised if they get a tract in the future.

I'd be pretty surprised.  If you read the article, it says Mike also talked to Nicklaus and Fazio, "for whom he has great respect."  It doesn't say who called whom.

Naturally, we're bummed we didn't get the nod for course #1 -- it's tough to keep losing out on jobs to the same guys, even if they are friends whom we totally respect.  We worked at Bandon and Barnbougle before them, and at Streamsong concurrently; I guess if we work in Wisconsin it will have to be after them, which would make for a different dynamic but could be fun.  I just hope there IS a second course, but it sounds very likely from my conversation with Mike a couple of weeks ago.

Steve Lapper

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2014, 08:21:06 pm »
Mike also went out of his way to talk with Jack Nicklaus and Tom Fazio so I'd not be surprised if they get a tract in the future.

I'd be pretty surprised.  If you read the article, it says Mike also talked to Nicklaus and Fazio, "for whom he has great respect."  It doesn't say who called whom.

Naturally, we're bummed we didn't get the nod for course #1 -- it's tough to keep losing out on jobs to the same guys, even if they are friends whom we totally respect.  We worked at Bandon and Barnbougle before them, and at Streamsong concurrently; I guess if we work in Wisconsin it will have to be after them, which would make for a different dynamic but could be fun.  I just hope there IS a second course, but it sounds very likely from my conversation with Mike a couple of weeks ago.


  Tom,

   I read the article quite well thank you. Yes, from the quote below it does not affirm who called whom first. Other than to you, does this really matter?

  "In addition to his short list of architects, Keiser also talked to Tom Fazio and Jack Nicklaus, "both of whom would love to be involved in Wisconsin and both of whom I respect greatly....They've both done amazing courses and we will consider them (for future courses)."

   Do you believe Mike deliberately misled the reporter when he mentions his future consideration for their participation? If 4-5 courses eventually get built, do you really believe he might not give either an opportunity? I may certainly prefer playing your designs to theirs, but I'm also reminded by many who don't frequent GCA.com and have the means to travel for higher-end resort golf that they really prefer Nicklaus and Fazio courses.  It's a big world these days.





The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

PCraig

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2014, 08:30:36 pm »
I'm excited that great architects are going to be building on what appears to be a great site about 4 hours away from home. Here's hoping that the project is a success and Mr. Doak, Mr. Urbina, and Mr. Kidd all get a shot later!

I find it highly unlikely that Kaiser will hand over the land to a Fazio and/or Nicklaus. It's possible, sure, but it would certainly break the successful mold.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer. All browsing and posts to the discussion board are done on my personal computer and mobile devices on my own time.

Terry Lavin

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2014, 09:10:15 pm »
Mike has been informally surveying many over the past year on this subject matter.  Who can argue with this selection?  Well, me, because my vote went elsewhere!  But, in truth, C&C will surely do a terrific job on the first course and then the surveying can begin anew for course #2!
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Mike_Young

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2014, 09:21:32 pm »

I find it highly unlikely that Kaiser will hand over the land to a Fazio and/or Nicklaus. It's possible, sure, but it would certainly break the successful mold.

Pat,
I don't think the architect choice is the major component of his successful mold.  It very critical but not the biggest part of his success.

SAND
if never happened.

Jud_T

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2014, 09:40:49 pm »
Midwest Mashie 16?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jim Nugent

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2014, 09:49:18 pm »
Were Doak and Urbina going to work together, or did they make separate, independent presentations? 

Dan Moore

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2014, 10:09:39 pm »
I don't think they could have gone wrong picking Coore & Crenshaw or Tom.  The land looks spectacular and I'm quite confident this project will be a success and think/hope the 2nd course will be built sooner rather than later.  Perhaps the winning formula of having Tom go second needing to clear a very high bar will work again. 

The climate and golf market in Wisconsin will make for some interesting choices.  I think it’s very wise to maintain a price point below the Kohler properties and Erin Hills to attract a broader range of regional retail golfers.  I suspect lower green fees will be possible given the land and construction costs are likely a fraction of what it took to bring Whistling Straits into existence.  Another question is will they go fescue which is finally thriving at Erin Hills under a no cart policy.  I also wonder given how hot and humid summers get in Wisconsin if they will maintain a no cart policy like Bandon or if they will rotate carts on one of the courses so a walk ride 36 day is reasonable for a broader range of the market in the heat of summer. 

Anyone who has doubts should take a look at Brian Zager's photos he posted on the other thread.

http://www.panoramio.com/user/3526258/tags/Future%20Golf%20Course%20Site%3F

They are GPS tagged to location which is pretty neat.  I've cribbed a few to post directly here.  Thanks Brian. 

You can see the extent of land clearing this project will need but also get an idea of the vistas and wide open spaces that will be created once the trees are gone.   I can certainly see Sand Hills, Ballyneal, Pine Valley, Sunningdale and Augusta potential in that sand. 

I can see Course 4 as a tribute to Harry Colt and Company;  “Old Harry.” 























"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Rick Shefchik

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2014, 10:15:48 pm »
With the paucity of golf courses being built today, I think there's a good chance the early 21st Century is going to be referred to by golf historians as the Coore-Crenshaw/Doak Age of golf course design.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

John McCarthy

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2014, 12:28:40 am »
Seconded on JudT's Mashie 16.
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2014, 01:01:03 am »
With all due respect to the many excellent candidates, I dearly hope Sir Nuzzo gets one of the Sand Valley commissions before all is said and done.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom, now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Steve Kline

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2014, 01:29:36 am »
+1 Kyle

I may never get to play Wolf Point so I'd love to see one of his courses with public access.
"The eliminated players may strike." - Tim Bert, Kingsley Night Golf Event

Frank Pont

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2014, 02:09:36 am »
Happy to contribute to Old Harry

Bill_McBride

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2014, 02:24:28 am »
With all due respect to the many excellent candidates, I dearly hope Sir Nuzzo gets one of the Sand Valley commissions before all is said and done.

I wonder if Mike Keiser has been to Wolf Point.    Hmmmm. 

Tim Lewis

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2014, 03:03:49 am »
  Another question is will they go fescue which is finally thriving at Erin Hills under a no cart policy.  I also wonder given how hot and humid summers get in Wisconsin if they will maintain a no cart policy like Bandon or if they will rotate carts on one of the courses so a walk ride 36 day is reasonable for a broader range of the market in the heat of summer. 

Im pretty sure Keiser said its probably going to be bentgrass with carts.

PCraig

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2014, 04:13:32 am »
God, I hope there are no carts.  :-X That would be a complete shame on that property.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer. All browsing and posts to the discussion board are done on my personal computer and mobile devices on my own time.

William_G

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2014, 06:46:02 am »
God, I hope there are no carts.  :-X That would be a complete shame on that property.

+1

It will be interesting to see this flesh out.

Will the founders be casually polled as to carts? Turf? Lodging? or not?

I did hear/read somewhere that it was going to be carts, so how does impact the routing?

It's all about the golf!

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Sand Valley first course architects
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2014, 02:18:14 pm »
Does that mean it's going to be mandatory carts? And does it mean that there will be designated cart path routes that have to be stuck to... or will the carts be allowed to roam... or travel through sandy waste areas?

I think there are a lot of great courses that allow carts and you wouldn't know the difference.

I really need to get myself to a Coore & Crenshaw course rather than just looking at photos on this site...

 

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