[Ran Morrissett]

Isn’t it the perfect follow-on host after Merion because it is so different?

Sandy soil, muted landforms, essentially no water hazards, width and last but not least,  NO ROUGH.

The only similarity the two courses share is that each took a while to evolve into the design gem that we know and appreciate today.

Merion staged a 10 out of 10 Open. Matt Shaffer's approach to greenkeeping is unsurpassed. Course set-up, playing conditions, everything was awesome.

That’s a tough act to follow for a traditional parkland inland course, especially since Merion’s architecture hole for hole makes most courses look anemic.

No.2 withstands such scrutiny and does so in its own manner, all without the need for trickery. Zach will be pleased

I can’t think of a better way to follow Merion than with Pinehurst. Do you agree?

Best,

[Brett_Morrissy]

Ran,

I haven't played Pinehurst, but from the description, I agree 100%. Merion was indeed a wonderful tournament - the course looked exceptional but I wish they didn't need to rely so heavily on lack of width and thick rough to "protect" it.

What will Pinehurst's defences be, assuming that they will be keen to protect Par? Will the greens and green speeds alone be sufficient? And we are assuming that the USGA's first priority will be to protect par, so it will be interesting to see how that influences any set up decisions.

Cheers,
B.

Ran, I agree with so much of Brian's comments. The same appreciation of this event, as well as the concern, that it is all and only about protecting "par".

While watching the final round today, and helping my understanding of the course with the USPGA's excellent iPad app course info, I wondered what Merion would be like if the entire (well almost) property was cut with massive gang mowers, removing all rough, most of the bunkers would now seem almost TOC like, scattered all over the place, with memories of the relevance to the original intent a distance one.

Then I thought of the next venue, which of course is #2, with no rough, but sand, wire grass and upside down greens with short grass as the "protection" - and which will be regarded as the "better"?

Showing my bias, I fear that #2 will be so far away from what the pros and the now PGA TOUR/Augusta-washed viewers the world over expect, that it will be "not as good as it once was, before they changed it"

I haven't visited either course, but am sure I would prefer #2 to Merion in their respective Open set ups. As Scott mentioned today on another thread, with the creative removed from the Strategy, all is left is absolute golf skill, accuracy and control - sadly lacking for most of us I assume.

[Jerry Kluger]

Ran: I really don't know that I can say that any US Open course is a great test of golf the way it is set up but perhaps #2 will be the exception.  It isn't that Justin Rose didn't deserve to win but rather it is why he won: he came out with the lowest score of those who survived.  Maybe it's just me but I would have much rather seen Jason Dufner not hit the ball OB and go on and win by taking on Merion and playing it the way you had to in order to win. When we watch the Masters we see players take on ANGC and play a spectacular round and win the tournament but this rarely happens at a US Open.  #2 has the potential to be that kind of test provided they set it up as a challenge but one that will reward a player for taking on those challenges and executing the shots to win. 

[Rich Goodale]

Ran

I have yet to be convinced that playing a serious golf tournament south of the mason-dixon line in June is anything but a sweat-fest.  And, as you know, I'm not yet convinced of the "greatness" of #2, although I'm willing to see for myself what C&C have done to improve Ross's design/reclaim his design from Landmark et. al.'s desecration.

Rich

[Terry Lavin]

They'll probably defend par by turning off the sprinklers and making the turf brick hard like they did at Pebble. It will be an enjoyable week to discuss the C &C reno and all of the great Pinehurst history.

[Mark McKeever]

I think it will be a great contrast to show different ways of protecting par.  I look forward to seeing golf balls roll all over the freaking place next year.

Mark

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ran,

SHCC and WFW are two of the courses that make minimal changes from member play vs Open play.

I now wonder if # 2 will be added to that list.

# 2 would seem to be in sharp contrast to Merion.

Ask yourself, would you like to play Merion, as you saw it yesterday, on a daily basis ?
I wouldn't

Would you like to play SHCC on a daily basis in it's Open configuration ?
Absolutely.

By today's standards, shouldn't a course be automatically elevated to greatness if it can host an Open one week and be enjoyed by the members the next week ?

We'll see if # 2 can meet that test.

[Bill Brightly]

Pat,

I don't think what the pros do should have any bearing on whether or not you rate a course as great. Especially a US Open.

I love Shinnecock for many reasons, none of which is that it can host an Open with minimal changes. Bethpage Black is another great course that can easily host an Open because they have a built in set of Tiger tees which should be played by pros only. Some routings permit that. Others, like Merion, simply do not have the space.

Merion was always a great course, a great members course, and will be after they restore the fairway lines. I do not take points away from Merion simply because the best golfers in the world can bomb their Pro V 1's 300 yards, so radical changes are required to host a US Open.

[Josh Tarble]

They'll probably defend par by turning off the sprinklers and making the turf brick hard like they did at Pebble. It will be an enjoyable week to discuss the C &C reno and all of the great Pinehurst history.

This is exactly what I hope happens.  No rain and brown grass. 

It's probably wishful thinking, but I would love the '14 open to kind of help change the publics' thinking on firm and fast vs. lush and green

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill,

It's doubtful that Merion will return the course to it's pre Open configuration.

They didn't do so after previous Opens, so I have my doubts on this Open.

Surely a course that can host member play and provide a challenge to the best golfers in the world with very few amendments has to be regarded as the architectural superior, today, to a course that has to undergo a major metamorphosis in order to challenge the best golfers in the world.

[William_G]

#2 will be fantastic to watch, and will reward a different type of golfer...more creative, Phil will have a chance again!

[John McCarthy]

It is my understanding that getting greens into the conditions needed for a US Open places considerable stress on the turf. 

The week after the Men's they are having the Women's Open at #2.  Will they simply move up the tees and let the ladies have at it?  Will they water like crazy, raise the mowers and hope the ladies do not have a winning score in the teens?  Are there enough hole locations on the greens? 

It is going to be interesting to see this play out.  I hope they can pull it off.

[Jud_T]

It's going to be awesome, but I fear a repeat of Shinnecock, i.e. those greens running at speeds they weren't designed for.  My guess is either the USGA bends on defending Par a bit or you hear a chorus of guys wining about the greens being close to/over the edge and a bunch of four-putts on Sportscenter.  I hope it's fantastic, and I can't wait to see the renovated course featured over the course of two weeks, but I'm fearful about the possible repercussions if it's not.  If only they'd waited until just after the anchoring ban goes into place to hold the Open  ...  Honestly for the GCA nerds the Women's Open might be a better tournament to watch, and certainly will be for the patrons on site.

[Terry Lavin]

It's going to be awesome, but I fear a repeat of Shinnecock, i.e. those greens running at speeds they weren't designed for.  My guess is either the USGA bends on defending Par a bit or you hear a chorus of guys wining about the greens being close to/over the edge and a bunch of four-putts on Sportscenter.  I hope it's fantastic, and I can't wait to see the renovated course featured over the course of two weeks, but I'm fearful about the possible repercussions if it's not.  

I only fear a repeat of the brick-hard turtle shell green setup that Michael Campbell won on.  That was no fun to watch, IMHO.

[Charlie Gallagher]

I enjoyed my one tour of #2 very much after C and C did their restorative work. It will be quite a contrast to Merion East and I look forward to the comparison. If it is set up to reward creativity and deft execution I will be more pleased to watch the shot making. It's one of the things I love about the Open Championship, the chance to recover and use the ground. Flop recovery is just not as interesting as watching a great player like Seve problem solve. It's ok once a year, but I'm glad it will be different next year. Wonder how they will set up Chambers Bay and Erin Hills for those Opens?  I'd like to see a combination of rough and short grass for the defense on those courses, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Ulrich Mayring]

They'll probably do the same thing they did at Merion: grow penal rough and reduce fairway width.

Ulrich

[Joe_Tucholski]

It is my understanding that getting greens into the conditions needed for a US Open places considerable stress on the turf. 

On the topic of stressed turf it should be noted the bent greens are going to be switched to bermuda shortly after the opens, July 2014.  So if the bent greens are dead no problems.  Realize I'm not saying the greens will be dead but saying if they are dead resort ownership/membership won't be upset.

[Tim Gavrich]

It is my understanding that getting greens into the conditions needed for a US Open places considerable stress on the turf. 

On the topic of stressed turf it should be noted the bent greens are going to be switched to bermuda shortly after the opens, July 2014.  So if the bent greens are dead no problems.  Realize I'm not saying the greens will be dead but saying if they are dead resort ownership/membership won't be upset.

Joe--

It seems that the deepest concern is that the greens will be dead at the end of the first Open and therefore in disappointing shape for the Women's Open the following week.

If Pinehurst's turf ends up being "brick-hard," I'd expect the pros to hit about as many drivers as they did at Merion, if not fewer. The fairways will be wider, but I imagine they'll play narrower if there's as much runout as some seem to want. That will make the course play quite short and the result will be a) less interesting last couple rounds and b) under-par winning score, perhaps double digits under par.

[Bill Brightly]

Bill,

It's doubtful that Merion will return the course to it's pre Open configuration.

They didn't do so after previous Opens, so I have my doubts on this Open.

Surely a course that can host member play and provide a challenge to the best golfers in the world with very few amendments has to be regarded as the architectural superior, today, to a course that has to undergo a major metamorphosis in order to challenge the best golfers in the world.

So Trump Bedminster is superior to Mountain Ridge, Plainfield and Someset Hills?

I imagine Meroin will leave the new bunkers in place but I'll be shocked if the fairways are not restored.

[BigEdSC]

I think that Pinehurst is going to be terrific.

But one question.  After the Men's Open, how torn up will the golf course be for the Women?  I'm thinking in terms of the divots in the fairways and giving the golf course some time to grow back.  I'm also thinking in terms of volunteers workng two weeks, access to the course for practice rounds for the players, and other logistics that I'm sure someone smarter than me have already taken care of.

[Carl Rogers]

I think that Pinehurst is going to be terrific.

But one question.  After the Men's Open, how torn up will the golf course be for the Women?  I'm thinking in terms of the divots in the fairways and giving the golf course some time to grow back.  I'm also thinking in terms of volunteers workng two weeks, access to the course for practice rounds for the players, and other logistics that I'm sure someone smarter than me have already taken care of.

True, but....
The bigger risk might be that the quality of the women's game cannot take the comparison to the event the week before.

[Wade Whitehead]

They'll probably do the same thing they did at Merion: grow penal rough and reduce fairway width.

I doubt we'll see Merion-ish rough at Pinehurst.  They returned the peripheral areas to a natural state for a reason.

WW

[Chris Buie]

Well, not to worry, it's going to be fantastic. And that's not just cheerleading because I've ladled out plenty of criticism of Pinehurst.

The wire grass is going to be quite a bit more dense than the early post resto photos have shown. It's going to be fun to watch them contend with that because it won't be predictable and they will actually have to think - or try to think, at least. The pros act like they're trying to solve a rocket science question when they're picking out a club at a standard American tournament. Honestly. It's 172 into a slight breeze and you want to hit the right center of the green. Why does that take you more than about 5 seconds to figure out what shot to play? And do you really need to do a 45 second kabuki dance behind the ball before you're ready to hit?

So a few of them may blow a gasket or two trying to figure out a golf scenario more interesting than what they are used to. You'll see plenty of photos with hands on the hips and very puzzled expressions as they stare down at their ball in the wire grass. They'll be taken to a different kind of golf because a lot of those pros are essentially range jockeys who make pretty much the same swing with every club with precise distances spoon fed to them. But when they bounce it in the junk they're going to have to go with instinct and intuition - and that's quite a different milieu for the range rockers to go with. It'll be a different thing for the viewers as well. They're used to seeing wall to wall green on their flatscreens. But since Johnny Miller will say it's cool and Phil will say it's cool they'll have their ideas of what constitutes golf shifted to some degree. Possibly that will influence your average American club and possibly that will be the real story of the 2014 show.

[Matt MacIver]

#2 will have width, no rough, no OB, no water hazards, rock hard bunkers and some rub of the green lies in the wire grass.  Green complexes between Merion and #2 couldn't be more different, each great in their own way.  They'll try to keep the fairways F&F but as always is weather defendant.  I make next years over/under winning score the same as this year, +1. 

[Bill Vogeney]

They'll probably do the same thing they did at Merion: grow penal rough and reduce fairway width.

I doubt we'll see Merion-ish rough at Pinehurst.  They returned the peripheral areas to a natural state for a reason.

WW

Wade, I am excited about seeing how #2 actually plays without the rough. Certainly the most unique set up the Open has seen in quite some time, right?

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