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Nigel Islam

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Bay Area golf
« on: January 24, 2013, 10:42:00 AM »
My work buddies are trying to get me to go to a conference in San Francisco the week of April 8th. Besides the obvious choices of Pebble, Spyglass, and Pasatiempo what are some of the other alternatives that might be worth checking out should I get bored of the conference.

Thanks

David_Tepper

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2013, 10:53:15 AM »
Nigel -

Unfortunately, there are not a lot of "don't miss" public golf options in the SF Bay Area.  I play quite a bit at Harding Park, which is a nice parkland course that I like, but it is a little pricey for out-of-towners. I like San Geronimo, in Marin County. It is a V. Macan design with a nice routing in a very pretty location.

There may be some better options in the South Bay. I am sure others will chime in.

DT

Keith Doleshel

Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2013, 10:55:27 AM »
Nigel,
Where are you staying?  If in San Francisco, Harding Park is certainly worth a look, however the rack rate for visitors is quite high for a municipal course.  While down in Monterey, if you have a few hours, see if you can play the back nine at Pacific Grove.  It's been mentioned many times on here, but it is definitely worth trying to play while down on the peninsula.  And if you pass by San Jose, stop by and see me at Cinnabar Hills.  It is the South Bay's best public course hands down.  We are in pretty good shape right now, greens are rolling nicely.  San Juan Oaks is also not a bad option a bit closer to Monterey. 

As David said, there really isn't that much great public golf in the Bay Area.  Sad, but true.

David_Tepper

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2013, 11:25:58 AM »
Nigel -

The Presidio in San Francisco is certainly worth a look. It is 100+ years old, has narrow tree-lined fairways and plays up & down over sloped terrain. There are a number of blind shots and some of the "longest" sub-400 yard par 4's you will ever play. It is currently undergoing some interesting bunker renovation work done by Richard Zokol. Try to play early in the morning, otherwise it can be a 5-hour round.

DT 

JLahrman

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2013, 01:25:18 PM »
Nigel, given how pessimistic you sound about the conference I would say that almost any course would seem preferable to sitting in the conference!

If you want to stay right in the city I would second the Presidio. Lots of fun shots and fun greens, and it's a great San Francisco experience with city views and/or fog.

Howard Riefs

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2013, 01:45:43 PM »
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Mike Schott

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2013, 02:26:19 PM »
I'm assuming you have a vehicle. There are a number of worthwhile public tracks in the East Bay. Not all are walkable. One is Poppy Ridge (27 holes) set over hills near Livermore. Wente is a Greg Norman track also in Livermore. There are a number of Johnny Miller courses in the area which are OK but nothing to rave about. Down the peninsula from San Francisco is Crystal Springs which I have not played but have heard has improved over the years. In Mountain View there is Shoreline which is a decent muni. Also a few tracks up in Marin and Sonoma Counties. I like San Juan Oaks south in Hollister but that's a good drive from the city.

JLahrman

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2013, 02:48:54 PM »
I'm assuming you have a vehicle. There are a number of worthwhile public tracks in the East Bay. Not all are walkable. One is Poppy Ridge (27 holes) set over hills near Livermore. Wente is a Greg Norman track also in Livermore. There are a number of Johnny Miller courses in the area which are OK but nothing to rave about. Down the peninsula from San Francisco is Crystal Springs which I have not played but have heard has improved over the years. In Mountain View there is Shoreline which is a decent muni. Also a few tracks up in Marin and Sonoma Counties. I like San Juan Oaks south in Hollister but that's a good drive from the city.

In the East Bay, I would opt for Monarch Bay or Metropolitan over Poppy Ridge. Both are much closer, and I personally find both courses to be more enjoyable.

David_Tepper

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2013, 02:51:40 PM »
"In the East Bay, I would opt for Monarch Bay or Metropolitan over Poppy Ridge. Both are much closer, and I personally find both courses to be more enjoyable."

And both the Metropolitan and Monarch Bay are easily walkable, where Poppy Ridge is not. ;)

Joe_Tucholski

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2013, 03:34:16 PM »
I enjoyed half moon bay.  It doesn't really get much love here though.

Nigel Islam

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2013, 03:45:45 PM »
Nigel, given how pessimistic you sound about the conference I would say that almost any course would seem preferable to sitting in the conference!

If you want to stay right in the city I would second the Presidio. Lots of fun shots and fun greens, and it's a great San Francisco experience with city views and/or fog.

Ha! Its not exactly a mandatory conference, but I can get a good chunk reimbursed through work. I am always looking for greener pastures so to speak. Thanks for all the great ideas!

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2013, 03:55:26 PM »

Mike Schott

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2013, 03:58:33 PM »
I'm assuming you have a vehicle. There are a number of worthwhile public tracks in the East Bay. Not all are walkable. One is Poppy Ridge (27 holes) set over hills near Livermore. Wente is a Greg Norman track also in Livermore. There are a number of Johnny Miller courses in the area which are OK but nothing to rave about. Down the peninsula from San Francisco is Crystal Springs which I have not played but have heard has improved over the years. In Mountain View there is Shoreline which is a decent muni. Also a few tracks up in Marin and Sonoma Counties. I like San Juan Oaks south in Hollister but that's a good drive from the city.

In the East Bay, I would opt for Monarch Bay or Metropolitan over Poppy Ridge. Both are much closer, and I personally find both courses to be more enjoyable.

I played poorly at Metropolitan so my memories of it are not good. The setting is a bit weird but I remember it having holes offering nice options. Definitely a much easier walk than Poppy Ridge.

JLahrman

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2013, 04:43:38 PM »
I played poorly at Metropolitan so my memories of it are not good. The setting is a bit weird but I remember it having holes offering nice options. Definitely a much easier walk than Poppy Ridge.

I did not care for Metropolitan initially, but the course has grown on me after subsequent rounds. There are a few holes that I still don't like (you know who you are, #6 and #14), but overall it's a pretty decent layout. I like Monarch Bay better than Metro from tee to green, but the greens at Metro are definitely more interesting. I've only been to Poppy Ridge once, but I certainly didn't care for that course nearly as much as Metro or Monarch, and it's probably an hour from SF (and not very walkable, as has been mentioned).

Carl Nichols

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2013, 06:16:02 PM »
It's not going to crack anyone's top 10, but CordeValle is a very nice place to spend a day.  It's probably an hour south of SFO (w/o traffic).  Challenging and walkable RTJ track with some great views and very few houses.  Some really cool holes and a couple of less interesting ones.  Pros have played there for the last few years.  Weather in April should be very nice.

From their website:

"The location had so many great possibilities that it was difficult to decide which to choose," commented Jones. "CordeValle is one of those pure 'core golf' experiences. It is perhaps my finest golf course creation," he added.   ;D

David_Tepper

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 06:20:56 PM »
Ciinnabar Hills (27 holes, in San Jose) is another South Bay course I have heard good things about.

www.cinnabarhills.com/

Connor Dougherty

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2013, 09:13:18 PM »
I enjoyed half moon bay.  It doesn't really get much love here though.

For me it depends which course you're talking about. The Ocean Course (Arthur Hills) was far superior to the Old course. I thought there were several good holes on the Ocean, while the Old was perfectly explained by Tom Doak when he said, "Strictly a one-hole golf course: the par-4 18th, playing south along a cliff overlooking the Pacific, being one of the better holes in California. The other 17 holes are mostly Hamburger Helper."
"The website is just one great post away from changing the world of golf architecture.  Make it." --Bart Bradley

Adam Clayman

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2013, 09:36:52 AM »
If you're a conditioning snob, don't go to Lincoln park. But, if you can see past the turf, the course itself is just a treat.

De Laveaga in Santa Cruz is a bit goofy, but, It's important to see crap gca, just as it is to experience quality.

If you have connects, Dr. Mac's first American design is in Marin, co. Well worth the effort.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Nigel Islam

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2013, 10:45:11 AM »
Just as an aside how would you guys rank Mackenzie's California courses after the obvious first few (Cypress, Pasatiempo, and Valley Club) I am not terribly familiar with them. Also I was looking at a list of California courses last night, and did the Bell's design every SoCal course built before 1960 or does it just seem that way? ???

Connor Dougherty

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2013, 09:41:53 AM »
Just as an aside how would you guys rank Mackenzie's California courses after the obvious first few (Cypress, Pasatiempo, and Valley Club) I am not terribly familiar with them. Also I was looking at a list of California courses last night, and did the Bell's design every SoCal course built before 1960 or does it just seem that way? ???

Cal Club, Meadow Club and then Claremont. After that, it's a collection of Haggin Oaks, Sharp Park, and Northwoods. I still haven't seen Union League but am hoping to sometime this summer.

EDIT: I almost forgot to put Cal Club in there. Haven't played it but have gone through Ran's write up a few times and seen the photo threads on here in the past and I find that the course looks superb.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 09:43:28 AM by Connor Dougherty »
"The website is just one great post away from changing the world of golf architecture.  Make it." --Bart Bradley

David_Tepper

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2013, 12:52:38 PM »
"I still haven't seen Union League but am hoping to sometime this summer."

Connor D. -

I have never heard of the Union League. Is it a golf course in California. Where is it located?

DT

Billsteele

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2013, 01:00:54 PM »
David-Green Hills was originally known as Union League.

David_Tepper

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2013, 01:25:50 PM »
"Green Hills was originally known as Union League."

Bill -

Thanks. I did not know that.

DT

Gib_Papazian

Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2013, 02:00:52 PM »
Nigel,

Don't let anybody deter you from the Half Moon Bay Ocean Course. What began as a muddy hillside above the beach became a golf course of real merit. Some of the middle holes could use a bit of jazzing up - but you're playing golf in a more beautiful setting then Torrey Pines and at least six of the holes are memorable.

The original course (much of the front nine is routed in housing corridors) at Half Moon Bay is decent. I disagree with Doak having played it 50 times over the years. The back nine has some quality holes - especially 15-18. The problem is that everyone wants to compare the Half Moon Bay courses to Pasatiempo, which is a long drive from San Francisco; remember, the Bay Area is way bigger than you think.  

Crystal Springs (I grew up playing it) is a decent track routed above 10,000 acres of watershed. Beautiful views, especially when the fog cascades over the coastal range. The front is a marginal mishmash of ham-handed redesign work, but the back nine is well worth the cost of admission.

Poplar Creek in San Mateo is an affordable, utilitarian solution is that contains more architectural content than it appears at first glance. Three holes run along the freeway, but you'll find enough quirk to keep things interesting. I was on the redesign committee years ago and am actually quite proud of what we accomplished on a challenging piece of ground. This is not your first choice, but it is fun to play - I always think a career round is there for the taking, but there are too many potholes and landmines to get through all 18 holes unscathed.

Coyote Creek is a windswept pile of shit so don't bother; Poppy Ridge is 27 holes that ought to have been left as vineyards, although if you get that deep into the East Bay, I really enjoy playing Wente. San Geronimo in Marin is a long drive, but a nice choice if you cannot get on Meadow Club - which is wonderful. San Juan Oaks - south of San Jose is excellent, don't miss a beer and some grub in San Juan Bautista. Dona Esther's is the best Mexican Food in the Bay Area.

One thing you have got to plan for is traffic, depending on which direction and when. It is like driving in the NYC Met area; there are times to go and times to just wait out the commuters in the bar.

If you feel the need to go south, try Boulder Ridge. It is a unique track, routed atop and around this abrupt plateau that rises above San Jose. Neal and I liked it quite a bit and although it is technically private, they tend to be accommodating.

I'd invite you to Olympic, but am gone that week on biz. Maybe one of the Treehouse gang will step up and help out a member of the brotherhood. Anybody?      
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 08:00:35 AM by Gib Papazian »

Bill_McBride

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Re: Bay Area golf
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2013, 03:49:10 PM »
Is Boulder Creek still open between SF and Santa Cruz?   I played there years ago and remember it as short and sort of fun. 

Why no love or Delaveaga in Santa Cruz?   Again years ago and only once, but I liked the way a few holes interacted with the barrancas. 

Gibby, I always liked the Ocean course too.  I looked forward to challenging the barranca on the 16th, had to hit a solid tee ball, and 18 with a back pin was a treat with the pin perched on that tiny shelf hanging over the ocean surf. 

Don't overlook my first golf course, Indian Valley in Novato.   Some excellent holes, some downright goofy holes, and a funicular from the 13th green to the 14th tee.   When some idiot left the door open at the top, you had to hike straight up "Cardiac Hill!"

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