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Garland Bayley

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Move over duel (SFGC), there's a new drop shot (CB) in town (well west coast)
« on: January 08, 2013, 12:14:50 AM »
Got to thinking about drop shot holes. Many think they are gimmicks. The masses love them. How do people think these two stack up?

#7 San Francisco Golf Club

Tee shot


Green



#9 Chambers Bay

Tee shot


Green


Both have ridge divisions to the green. Both have pin positions that will be very difficult to challenge. SFGC has more bunkers surrounding the green, but missing long at Chambers Bay can present some very difficult recoveries too.

« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 12:47:21 PM by GJ Bailey »
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Doug Siebert

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Re: Move over duel, there's a new drop shot in town (well west coast)
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 02:07:01 AM »
That picture of SFGC looks quite interesting from the angle you present the shot of the green.  I was disappointed that the tee shot is straight on, it looks like it would be a far more interesting hole with the green presented at an angle like that.
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Sean Leary

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Re: Move over duel, there's a new drop shot in town (well west coast)
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 09:40:48 AM »
Garland,

When you played the Duel Hole, how many clubs did you club down based on the downhill vs CB?

My biggest issue with 9 at CB is that it feels woefully out of place for a links course. It is SO downhill, it feels like a mountain course. I like 15 and 17 which are both drop shots.....
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 10:27:32 AM by Sean Leary »
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Will Lozier

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Re: Move over duel, there's a new drop shot in town (well west coast)
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 09:59:17 AM »
CB reminds me of the reverse redan at LACC...more downhill.

Cheers
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Move over duel, there's a new drop shot in town (well west coast)
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 10:37:11 AM »
Disclaimer: I did not take the pictures, but instead harvested them from other threads on the website. I apologize to the photographers, as I was too tired last night to have the patience to record who they were.

Checking their urls lets me know that the CB green is by M. W. Sander. I'm guessing the CB long shot is Jim Johnson, and the SFGC pics are Chip Gaskins. I hope I got that right.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Matt MacIver

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Re: Move over duel, there's a new drop shot in town (well west coast)
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 11:06:11 AM »
What are the lengths of each of these?  And what is the definition of a "drop shot"?  My gut says a drop shot is a severely downhill wedge or short iron shot, i.e. max. 150 yards.  Is a partially / fully blind pin a pre-requisite? 

 
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Move over duel, there's a new drop shot in town (well west coast)
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 11:16:27 AM »
Quote from: Matt MacIver on January 08, 2013, 11:06:11 AM
What are the lengths of each of these?  And what is the definition of a "drop shot"?  My gut says a drop shot is a severely downhill wedge or short iron shot, i.e. max. 150 yards.  Is a partially / fully blind pin a pre-requisite?  

 

SFGC 150, 169, 189
CB 132, 144, 168, 202, 227

Comparable at 189 vs 202

No blindness as prerequisite. Severe enough downhill makes drop shot no matter the length.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 12:49:49 PM by GJ Bailey »
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Move over duel (SFGC), there's a new drop shot (CB) in town (well west coast)
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 02:03:38 PM »
I've never thought of #7 as a "drop shot" hole.  You don't really club down very much on the shot compared to other downhill holes (e.g., Olympic Ocean #5).  I've never played CB but that hole looks a lot more like a "drop".

I've heard it said that the hardest second shot at SF is your second to #7 if you miss the green.
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Move over duel (SFGC), there's a new drop shot (CB) in town (well west coast)
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2013, 02:29:11 PM »
Quote from: Kevin_Reilly on January 08, 2013, 02:03:38 PM
I've never thought of #7 as a "drop shot" hole.  You don't really club down very much on the shot compared to other downhill holes (e.g., Olympic Ocean #5).  I've never played CB but that hole looks a lot more like a "drop".

I've heard it said that the hardest second shot at SF is your second to #7 if you miss the green.

I don't know where you would get a true indication of the elevation change on the duel. Google earth elevation profile suggests a drop of 40 feet or more. I tried to read the topo at http://library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1101825906573-44/TI+FinalS.pdf, but it's not clear enough to tell.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Brian Colbert

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Re: Move over duel (SFGC), there's a new drop shot (CB) in town (well west coast)
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 08:12:26 PM »
From the back tee 9 at CB is one of the most intimidating holes I have ever played.
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Ronald Montesano

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Re: Move over duel (SFGC), there's a new drop shot (CB) in town (well west coast)
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2013, 08:43:35 PM »
Taconic #9

From Behind (looks kinda flat, huh?)


From Up Top (this green is wafer thin, says Mr. Creosote)


A Bit Closer


From The Putting Green, Looking Back
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Ronald Montesano

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Re: Move over duel (SFGC), there's a new drop shot (CB) in town (well west coast)
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2013, 08:51:33 PM »
Phoenix Golf Links (Columbus, more or less)

From Tee, Deep


From Tee, Closer (Crappy day for golf and photography)
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John Ezekowitz

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Re: Move over duel (SFGC), there's a new drop shot (CB) in town (well west coast)
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2013, 12:27:19 AM »
The Duel Hole pic reminds me of the view from the new tees on the extreme right at the 9th at Merion. Sorry, I don't have a picture.

Also, one of my favorite drop shots is the 6th at Merion West. That has to be up there for vertical drop on such a short hole. Played with a kid who made an ace on the fly in a high school match.
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Move over duel (SFGC), there's a new drop shot (CB) in town (well west coast)
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2013, 03:35:15 PM »
Tom Doak writes in the Confidential Guide:

"While there are many holes to choose from, one deserves special mention because it was Tillinghast's own personal favorite of his productive career, and is a favorite of mine also. The par-3 7th is known as the "Duel hole" because the canyon in which the green lies was the scene of the last duel in American history near the turn of the century; the short hole which resides there now is perhaps the best "drop-shot" par-3 in all of golf. The long, kidney-shaped green is divided in two by a humpbacked ridge which plays a great part in the strategy, because a shot lighting on its reverse slope can be sent careening into one of the nasty bunkers which guard the back of the green, when the pin is set not far behind the ridge, one must carefully weigh the risk of playing to the back half versus laying up safely on the front projection of the green and putting over the ridge."

One of the very few holes he gave !!! to.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne
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