[David_Tepper]

At least one GCA is not taking it lying down.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/blogs/local-knowledge/2012/12/an-indignant-norman-cuts-ties-with-course-he-founded.html

[Tom_Doak]

For some reason, I thought that Norman actually OWNED Medalist, so the subject line here was a bit of a surprise.

Interesting that he is telling them to take Pete Dye's name off the course, too.  You would think that Pete would have his own opinion, and that Bobby Weed [who learned the business from Pete Dye] would be unlikely to pursue work that Pete disapproved of.

[Patrick_Mucci]

David,

What's even more interesting is this comment:

"The design integrity of the original designed course has been compromised by your alterations without consultation or discussion with neither Pete Dye nor me."

The original design integrity was compromised almost each and every year since the course first opened.

Anyone who played the original wouldn't recognize the 18th hole which looks like a Fazio creation.

I was there a few weeks ago and there's far more behind the story than the article reveals.

Tom Doak,  The course was turned over to the members a while ago.

The shark above the bar is quite impressive.
I don't understand how Norman can expect it to be given to him, unless he loaned it to the club.

[BHoover]

Does anyone else get a bit tired of Norman? It seems that there's always something going on with him that makes me like him less and less. First it was his series of tabloid marriages and divorces (not that I care about his personal life, but why draw attention to yourself).  Then he has to interject himself into the whole Tiger Woods vortex and talk about how Tiger is finished (not likely). More incredibly, he staged his Shark Shootout the same weekend as the Australian Open (whatever happened to supporting your own national championship...and then he plays the PGA the following week but WD's). And now this, whatever it is.

If only he had won the 2008 Open and immediately retired, he could have avoided all this...but I think he likes to keep his name in the news.

[Sidney Lin]

I am pretty certain Greg Norman thru his Great White Shark Enterprises in a joint venture with Macquarie Bank owned Medallist Developments. Note the double L. It designed and built a number of golf community and residential developments including settlers run in melbourne, the vintage in the hunter valley in nsw Australia to name a few but I am sure they completed many other projects.

Greg Norman is a brand name and he has to keep a profile as it helps business.

The wd at the PGA he blamed on food poisoning. To his credit he spent some time in the commentary booth that weekend.... To keep the brand name out there!!! His influence in Aussie golf is profound the crowd following him at last years aus open was off the charts.

[Lawrence Largent]

Wasn't it Norman who kept softening the course a little each year.  I had a friend who joined when it opened and said that Norman made the course 6 to 8 shots easier and he never consulted Dye with the changes.  Judging from what I saw in the Shell's wonderful world of Golf.  I would love to see the original design.

Lawrence

[Patrick_Mucci]

Sidney,

Neither Greg nor any of his companies own the Medalist.

[Tom_Doak]

Sidney,

Neither Greg nor any of his companies own the Medalist.

I used to be a big Norman fan, but,
With all the available women in the world and especially in South Florida, having an affair with your best friend's wife is inexcusable..  
The lowest of the low.
It's the ultimate betrayal and a sign of a weak character or pure arrogance or both.
Certainly not the action of one wanting to protect and enhance their "brand" image.

People lost all respect for him when he chose to have an affair with Chris Evert, the wife of his best friend Andy Mill.
People also say that his subsequent undermining of Andy's relationship with his kids didn't do anything but to further tarnish that image.

Sometimes great athletes and/or celebrities feel that they're invincible or not subject to the same principles as everyone else or both.

He may remain an idol in Australia, but to many in South Florida, where he, Chris and Andy live, he's a bum.

What's really shocking is that there are so many young, gorgeous, available women in South Florida, so why get involved with your BEST FRIEND'S WIFE ?

Patrick:

This post is beneath you.  You're welcome to draw your own conclusions about a man's character, but there is no need to advertise them to others, especially when they have no bearing on the topic at hand.

Lots of people make the same mistake when your friend Mr. Trump comes up.

[Anthony Butler]

Sidney,

Neither Greg nor any of his companies own the Medalist.

I used to be a big Norman fan, but,
With all the available women in the world and especially in South Florida, having an affair with your best friend's wife is inexcusable..  
The lowest of the low.
It's the ultimate betrayal and a sign of a weak character or pure arrogance or both.
Certainly not the action of one wanting to protect and enhance their "brand" image.

People lost all respect for him when he chose to have an affair with Chris Evert, the wife of his best friend Andy Mill.
People also say that his subsequent undermining of Andy's relationship with his kids didn't do anything but to further tarnish that image.

Sometimes great athletes and/or celebrities feel that they're invincible or not subject to the same principles as everyone else or both.

He may remain an idol in Australia, but to many in South Florida, where he, Chris and Andy live, he's a bum.

What's really shocking is that there are so many young, gorgeous, available women in South Florida, so why get involved with your BEST FRIEND'S WIFE ?

Patrick:

This post is beneath you.  You're welcome to draw your own conclusions about a man's character, but there is no need to advertise them to others, especially when they have no bearing on the topic at hand.

Lots of people make the same mistake when your friend Mr. Trump comes up.

Congratulations, Pat. It takes some fine work to become the biggest self-righteous bozo in a thread when the topic is Greg Norman.

[jeffwarne]

Merry Christmas to all

[Jon Wiggett]

Guys,

lets not let Patrick's unusual view on life ruin another thread. There is no point in going there.

With Greg Norman, he has obviously given quite a bit of heart and soul into this course. It is always dangerous doing work free of charge for a club unless you are the type of person who can accept when the club decides to pay someone else to alter what you did as a gift.

Jon

[Anthony_Nysse]

The real question here should be, "How did Bobby Weed become the architect of choice at Medalist?" What has he done to warrant his work at a club such as Medalist? This one confuses me as I had heard by a very good source, that Pete Dye was involved and had done several ride arounds.

[Jon Wiggett]

The real question here should be, "How did Bobby Weed become the architect of choice at Medalist?" What has he done to warrant his work at a club such as Medalist? This one confuses me as I had heard by a very good source, that Pete Dye was involved and had done several ride arounds.

For some reason, I thought that Norman actually OWNED Medalist, so the subject line here was a bit of a surprise.

Interesting that he is telling them to take Pete Dye's name off the course, too.  You would think that Pete would have his own opinion, and that Bobby Weed [who learned the business from Pete Dye] would be unlikely to pursue work that Pete disapproved of.

Maybe they felt with the Pete Dye connection that he would be a good choice to get the style. It is not as if Bobby Weed is an unknown GCA

Jon

[Greg Tallman]

What is to stop the club from billing it as...

"Originally designed by Greg Norman and Pete Dye"

Simply a statement of fact.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Didn't the post original course changes by Norman result from a new member attraction issue? The original course was perceived to be "too hard" for newer higher handicappers.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Congratulations, Pat. It takes some fine work to become the biggest self-righteous bozo in a thread when the topic is Greg Norman.

Anthony,

When you witness a guys life destroyed and a family disrupted under those circumstances, and it bothers you, it's not self-righteousness.

[Patrick_Mucci]

This post is beneath you.  You're welcome to draw your own conclusions about a man's character, but there is no need to advertise them to others, especially when they have no bearing on the topic at hand.

Tom, you could be right, but I thought that Sidney might be trying to deify him and took exception.

I've removed the reference but my sentiments are unchanged and I really, really used to admire the guy.

Lots of people make the same mistake when your friend Mr. Trump comes up.

True, but they don't know all the parties involved.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Didn't the post original course changes by Norman result from a new member attraction issue? The original course was perceived to be "too hard" for newer higher handicappers.

Steve,

It was hard for mid to low handicaps as well.

Interestingly, the original 4th hole, which I liked has gone through a number of iterations, the most recent of which almost returns it to the original.

I think the initial complaints centered on heroic carries, especially into a wind from the west and the off fairway consequences, which were essentially non-recoverable.

Interestingly, many of the original greenside bunkers were steep brick sodded bunkers, like in the UK, but, mainenance in South Florida with all the torrential rain and wind was a problem, plus, they weren't perceived as member friendly

The club has always been one of the best run clubs in South Florida.

But, the course, unlike Seminole, was too confining and the consequences for going off the fairway, dire.
Throw in the heroic carries on holes like # 2, 5, 8, 9 12, 13, 14, 16 and the flanking water on 10, 15, 17 and 18 AND the dense scrub flanking the fairways everywhere else, and you have a very, very demanding golf course.

It's been widened, but, it's still presents a stiff challenge.

[Sidney Lin]

Dear Patrick,

I never said GN owned medalist gc. I noted he part owned Medallist Developments! Totally different company!

Sorry if you did not understand my previous post. I even pointed out the double L.

Hope this clarifies things.

Sid

[Anthony Butler]

Congratulations, Pat. It takes some fine work to become the biggest self-righteous bozo in a thread when the topic is Greg Norman.

Anthony,

When you witness a guys life destroyed and a family disrupted under those circumstances, and it bothers you, it's not self-righteousness.

I don't think anyone here is giving off the impression that Greg Norman is some kind of angel... On the other hand what happened amongst a group of consenting adults seems to bear little relevance to whatever changes are being made to a golf course. A golf course where, I might add, the management has also welcomed visits from people with a connection to GWS.

On a related note, after the recent changes to 4 and 18 at New South Wales, the club received a letter from Alister Mackenzie and Eric Apperley asking them to...

[Dean Stokes]

I cannot comment on the Norman situation but I did play the course 4 weeks ago and know several members of the club. The course is in the best shape I have seen it since I first played it 8 years ago - I believe Mr Mudd was instrumental in hiring the assistant super from The Bears Club last year and he is doing a great job. They have done some work on the bunkering but the most noticeable change is in the clearing out of palmettos/bushes to make the course both more playable and better on the eye.
I also understand Mr Mudd changed the structure of the initiation process and has quickly filled the membership-some feat given the present situation at many clubs. I had a fun day and look forward to testing my game there again.

[Gib_Papazian]

Anthony,

"Self-righteous?"

Jeeeez, I'm glad you are not my best friend.

I don't give a a shit what Norman's rationale was, there is no excuse for being a sexual predator on your best friend's wife. None, zero, zip. And if she was coming on to him, he should have thought through the ramifications of helping cause a very public divorce.

Now, there have been TWO very public divorces as Norman's short-sightedness blew up in his face.

And no, I am not being sanctimonious. Nobody understands better than me how a tryst can happen with an unrelated woman; marriage can be a trying challenge with a woman who no longer loves you.

But under no circumstances - period - do you hustle on your best friend's wife. And if she tries to get fresh, you give her the full Heisman right on the forehead.

The whole thing was egregious - and sickening. I hold golfers to a higher moral and ethical standard than NBA stars.

And I hold men to a higher standard than menopausal women.    

[Jon Wiggett]

Gib,

just to put a bit of balance into the discussion. Could said best friend's wife have said no. You make it sound as though it was all Greg Norman and 'sexual preditor' is a bit harsh, no.

Jon

[Gib_Papazian]

Jon,

I do not care who started it or what extenuating circumstances were used as an excuse. I do not care if Chris Evert snuck into his hotel room 5,000 miles from home in a negligee and Norman was 11 sheets to the wind.

One more time: I hold men to a higher standard. Menopausal women sometimes make some incomprehensibly stupid decisions and the sane male must act like a responsible adult in those circumstances. That does not mean you go to your best friend and tell him what happened, but you make it crystal clear (can you tell this happened to me twice?) to the tart in question that if she ever pulls a stunt like that again, you'll rat her out in less than a flash.  

Think about it: Go into the self-help section of the local bookstore and 90% of the browsers are wearing an estrogen patch. Ever wonder why? They are desperately trying to hold onto their self-image and every new wrinkle is like a knife in the vagina. Why do you think so many women in their mid-40's abandon good husbands that love them?

It is like a mental illness takes over; there is a reason the Yellow Pages are full of MFCC "therapists" - most of whom are divorced, middle-aged women who went off to "find themselves" and ended up hanging out a shingle with a quickie degree to help self-perpetuate this form of mid-life insanity. It is good for business.

If Greg wanted some extracurricular trim, there are 2,365,786 unmarried (of all ages) women in Florida who would be happy to polish the chrome on his sailboat.

And I do not begrudge him that. It is a free country and consenting adults can do what they like, just not with somebody's wife who considers you a brother.    

[David_Tepper]

"Menopausal women sometimes make some incomprehensibly stupid decisions"

Gib -

Per Jack Welch, General Petraeus and countless others, it would appear aging men are just as, if not far more, capable of making "incomprehensibly stupid decisions."

DT

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