[Ash Towe]

Golf Australia magazine just published the following list.  Not sure who or how they selected the courses.

1 Cape Kidnappers
2 Kinloch
3 Paraparumu
4 Jacks Point
5 Kauri Cliffs
6 Wairakei
7The Hills
8 Pegasus golf Club
9 Millbrook
10 Titirangi
11 Royal Auckland
12Carrington
13Gulf Harbour
14 Clearwater
15 Christchurch
16 Arrowtown
17 Hastings
18 New Plymouth
19 Royal Wellington
20 Oreti Sands
21 Muriwai
22 Hamilton
23 Poverty Bay
24 Queenstown
25 Terrace Downs

It is a good list.  There will be arguments about the positioning of the courses, as you would expect but I cannot think of any serious omissions.
If we take Kauri Cliffs as the beginning of new developments in this country, then there are 9 courses built since then on the list.

[Tom_Doak]

Ash:

What is Pegasus Golf Club?  Something new, or a re-branding of something old?

I had a spare day on my trip last month and went to see Kaitaia and to walk Titirangi again [for the first time since 1988].  Kaitaia wasn't as good as I'd hoped, but I have a hard time thinking there are 25 better courses in N.Z.  Or that Titirangi really belongs down at #10 -- I was generally impressed with the work that has been done there.  I meant to go see Kinloch this time, too, but the forecast was for very chilly weather, so I put that off for a future visit.

[Ash Towe]

Tom,

Pegasus is a new building development/community built just outside Christchurch.  The golf club/sports facilities are a focal point I believe.  Not been there myself.  The course has been used for the NZ Ladies Open for the last 2 years.

I agree about Titirangi being to low at 10.

[Michael Goldstein]

How do these lads come up with this stuff? A token trip across the Tasman to see a handful of courses and voila...

Pegasus is not a better golf course than Titirangi.  http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/blogs/the-golf-nut/5317842/Golf-in-Christchurch-can-we-do-better

And for GCA folks, Arrowtown and Oreti are at least 10 spots too low.

Thanks for posting Ash - IM for a game if you're up for it yet. 

[David_Elvins]

New Zealanders,

Am off to Queenstown next year and am thinking of the following golf itinery:
36 Jacks point
36 Arrowtown
27 Millbrook

Any comment? Is it worth playing Queenstown, or checking out The Hills?  Is 36 at Jacks Point or Arrowtown overkill?  Anything else within reach worth checking out. 

cheers,

[Wayne_Kozun]

Kauri Cliffs at 5 doesn't jive with its World Ranking, but that is likely due to the fact that International rankers will likely go to Kauri ahead of anywhere else in the country, excepting CK.  I have only played KC and CK in NZ and I must say that they are both fantastic golf experiences and also extremely top notch hotels.

[Michael Goldstein]

David,

If budget allows you should see The Hills as well - it is right there. 

36 at Arrowtown is definitely not overkill.  It's easily done too - if you are there in summer you can start after dinner (say, 6 or 7pm) and it's easy enough to play in 2.5 hours. 

I'm not sure of your tastes, but personally my favourite course in the area is Oreti Sands - the issue is that it is a 2 hour drive (and doesn't really have grass on all the fairways).

IM me closer to the time.  I saw KP and Pup in Queenstown this summer.

[David_Elvins]

I'm not sure of your tastes, but personally my favourite course in the area is Oreti Sands - the issue is that it is a 2 hour drive (and doesn't really have grass on all the fairways).

Thanks Michael, I will try to make the effort to get down to Oreti sands. 

What's the deal with Millbrook?  Should all 27 holes be played or is one 9 wore than the other 2?

[Leo Barber]

One of the better lists in a perverse kind of way - obviously you can always debate the top 5.  Hamilton 15+ places too low and Titirangi class and definitely worthy of higher.  Good to see Kinloch up there.  Poverty Bay, wonderful land and holes that would put some of those higher to shame.  Pegasus, can anyone whos played comment?

[Leo Barber]

Oreti way too low.  That is such a quality layout on wonderful land.  Gee I would be polite saying thst there is 10 courses listed that would be better.  NZs unique perhaps in the fact that conditioning seems to have a larger percentage influence than pure layouts in a country that operates on very minimal budgets.

Harewood?  Have heard great things.  Cromwell?

[Michael Goldstein]

Leo, enjoy your passion with the double post.

Harewood and Cromwell should both be on the list, yes.

I already passed comment on Pegasus and I'll leave it at that!

David - just play 18 at Millbrook and then play 18 at Arrowtown.

[Mark Chaplin]

I've played 3 of the top 6 and even they are not in my order. Needless to say I haven't played the ones that need a mortgage to play!

[Josh Tarble]

Let me first say, in my visit to NZ, the land there is second to none for great golf courses.  Even the small lesser known courses looked like a joy to play, sadly being my honeymoon, I couldn't talk the wife into playing every day!

My only thought, is that I wonder if Kauri Cliffs was presented in a more fast and firm condition it may even be thought of higher around the world? 

[Kevin Pallier]

1 Cape Kidnappers
2 Kinloch
3 Paraparumu
4 Jacks Point
5 Kauri Cliffs
6 Wairakei
7The Hills
8 Pegasus golf Club
9 Millbrook
10 Titirangi
11 Royal Auckland
12Carrington
13Gulf Harbour
14 Clearwater
15 Christchurch
16 Arrowtown
17 Hastings
18 New Plymouth
19 Royal Wellington
20 Oreti Sands
21 Muriwai
22 Hamilton
23 Poverty Bay
24 Queenstown
25 Terrace Downs

Ash

My Top5 would probably read
Cape Kidnappers
Paraparaumu Beach
Kinloch
Jacks Point
Kauri Cliffs

I think Harewood should be in the mix ?

For mine Arrowtown is too low - I'd play there over The Hills any day of the week

[Kevin Pallier]

New Zealanders,

Am off to Queenstown next year and am thinking of the following golf itinery:
36 Jacks point
36 Arrowtown
27 Millbrook

Any comment? Is it worth playing Queenstown, or checking out The Hills?  Is 36 at Jacks Point or Arrowtown overkill?  Anything else within reach worth checking out. 

cheers,

David

Am not a NZer but would like to comment 

You'll have fun at Arrowtown - 36 is not overkill same too for Jack's Point

Kelvin Heights (Queenstown) has an amazing location - pity what I saw of it's holes don't seem to match the setting

Am not sure of the 27 at Millbrook - I think you would be dissappointed with the Arrow 9

I will do a thread on The Hills soon - stay tuned

[Ash Towe]

Kevin,

Good to have you back.

I like your top five.  Para at 2 is right.

Not sure about Jacks Point over KC.

Not been to Harewood.

Arrowtown is great, best fun course I have played in NZ and almost anywhere else.

[Grant Saunders]

I have just seen this and have a couple of quick comments.

Harewood and cromwell should certainly both be on that list.

Arrowtown should be much higher.

Dave, 36 at arrowtown is highly recommended. I would personally be inclined to play 18 at jacks point and then head to cromwell (about 1hour by car) for a round. Recent redevelopment work there has strengthened what was already a very good course.

Hopefully Scott Macpherson sees this and posts his thoughts.

[Leo Barber]

New Zealanders,

Am off to Queenstown next year and am thinking of the following golf itinery:
36 Jacks point
36 Arrowtown
27 Millbrook

Any comment? Is it worth playing Queenstown, or checking out The Hills?  Is 36 at Jacks Point or Arrowtown overkill?  Anything else within reach worth checking out. 

cheers,

David

Am not a NZer but would like to comment 

You'll have fun at Arrowtown - 36 is not overkill same too for Jack's Point

Kelvin Heights (Queenstown) has an amazing location - pity what I saw of it's holes don't seem to match the setting

Am not sure of the 27 at Millbrook - I think you would be dissappointed with the Arrow 9

I will do a thread on The Hills soon - stay tuned

Kev, are you just teasing or are you seriously threatening some kiwi course reviews from your trip?

The 17 inch putt on 13 is still haunting me mate haha!

What do you think Pup or are you still deliberating over the 10th hole at Kauri?

Ash, any idea how this list was compiled (purely for interest).  Was it a reporters trip to NZ, a panel, a summary from other lists or simply Pup ghost wrting?

[Michael Whitaker]

Ash - Royal Wellington at #19 does not say much for the depth of courses in NZ. RW is a nice members course, but nothing special. when I was there last year they had grand plans for a major redo of the course. Has that work been done? Is that reflected in the ratings?

Titirangi is really good. I'm glad to learn they are spiffing it up. It was in VERY average condition when I was there last March.

Wairakei was a real surprise for me. It was fantastic fun with just the right mix of challenge. Of the 30+ rounds I played on my tour the day at Wairakei was the only one I took a cart... and it was a pleasure to do so!!! I was amazed by the fence surrounding the place to keep the animals out. I've never seen anything like that before.

I love saying Wairakei and Titirangi.  

[Ash Towe]

Michael,
I agree with you regarding the depth of NZ courses.  It was a whole lot worse  pre Julian Robertson and Kauri Cliffs.

Regarding Royal Wellington, Scott MacPherson is the person to ask re the developments there.

Titirangi has improved so much.  The issue with conditioning is a lot to do with money.  They need more members.  Last year you could join and there was no entry fee.

Wairakei is a good course and perceived as great value.  It was seen as the most popular course in NZ, not to be confused with the best.

Glad you had fun with pronunciations.

[Mike_Clayton]

Ash,

How can the best course - I am assuming Titirangi is still the best course - in the biggest city in the country be struggling?

[Matthew Mollica]

I have often wondered the same thing re: Titirangi. It doesn't make much sense on the surface.
Maybe the social cache attached with inferior courses sees them remain healthier than they might otherwise.

MM

[Ash Towe]

Mike/Matthew,

There is no doubt that Titirangi is the best course in Auckland and by some considerable margin.  I would not say its struggling but rather there is no spare cash.  However it is not situated in a particularly affluent area.  In fact many of the members travel across the city to play there.  Unfortunately not enough to fill the membership as of last year.

[Leo Barber]

Ash,

How can the best course - I am assuming Titirangi is still the best course - in the biggest city in the country be struggling?

Therein lies the crisis facing golf in nz at the moment.  The market places little value on the best club courses and for the non club courses, they simply serve as loss leaders for other aspects of their wider business (realestate or accomodation).  The majority of clubs in NZ are technically insolvent, they struggle to cover depreciation, they have massive amounts of debt and they simply have eaten the family silver over the last 20 years against a climate of falling memberships and revenue.  For most, gaming grants (pokie machine funding) and landsales are delaying the inevitable but even those options are fast becoming exhausted.  I know of atleast 3 high profile clubs in Auckland that have either sold or are exploring selling their courses to realestate development in the exhange for new sites positioned further out of suburbia with promises of fresh starts and zero debt.  Kind of like the greenkeeper that wants to build new usga spec poa free bentgrass greens but still refuses to accept that over watering and over fertilising are contributing factors to what he has now.

Golf in NZ is low yeilding, over represented by courses with diminishing demand.



 

[Michael Goldstein]

Mike: wrong to assume Titirangi is the best course. It's great but Pram is much better.

Kiwis like manicured stuff. Some say we're 20 years behind the western world. I'd suggest we watch too much Monday night PGA Tour highlights.

RW is mid Renovation but I'd be surprised if it moves too much (although you never know with these 'lists').

Leo, good rant. I'd suspect the list was done by the editorial guys at the magazine with the input of some of their colleagues...

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