[Jim Franklin]

Bruce,

Most of my designs focus on how to get the golfer more of No. 3 and 4.

I find myself returning to some of the 1970 modes, like making sure any bunker on the right of a green doesn't extend much in front of the green because just so many shots land there and start golfers piling up the score.  I am not surprised when golfers just like gently rolling greens, without tiers, big breaks, etc.  Just getting a 20 foot putt anywhere near the hole distance wise without big directional or vertical changes has always proven tough enough for the average golfer.

You might be interested to know that one of my local courses here in DFW has three cart girls who make over $55K in tips, and its not Cowboys!

Which course has the girls making that kind of money? I need to check it out when I am in DFW next.

[Bruce Katona]

Jeff: If you're succeeding in #3 & #4, your clients should be happy with the end result, which hopefully would:
1. lead to repeat business for you and the firm
2. Good word of mouth advertising from your clients to their friends "  My architect Jeff Brauer designed a terrific tract - looks hard as heck but I'm getting my customers around in 4:20 and they can shoot a respectible score - it brings them back.  PS....my cart girls are SMOKING!".

The death march around the architectural gem with the heroic forced carries and bunkers you need a sunscreen and a beach chair for (since you'll be in there forever before throwing the ball out) are great for 1-2 visits per year.  The avergae 18-20 handicap guy just won't beat himself up evry other week playing this type of course.  An how many more 18-20+ handicap golfers  are there than 0-10's ?

[Garland Bayley]

How about what a lot of golfers hate?

Carts and cart girls! The course makes no effort to assure people play in a reasonable amount of time, and then they stick a beverage cart into the mix to further slow things down. When coupled with a course that does not provide fresh drinking water every few holes, the message is "I've got you stranded here after extracting a green fee from you, now I am going to take a pound of flesh too by making you buy an environmentally unsound bottle of water from me, and oh by the way you are expected to tip the beverage provider so that she can earn more in tips than you do at your job."

[J Sadowsky]

I'm sure we can envision the average Saturday of an average golfer in America!

He (or she) wakes up in his (her) suburban Mcmansion, yawns and stretches while looking out of the bedroom window as an early morning sun bathes thousands of other identical cookie cutter Mcmansion homes on quarter acre lots in the golden glow that signals a bright new day.

Golfing weather!, he/she says out loud, and that golden glow reminds me of the golden maple flavored corn syrup I like to pour all over my hotcakes and sausage breakfast at Mcdonalds, mmm, mmm. A quick shower with Ivory(TM) soap suds, a shave with Edge(TM) and tooth brushing with Crest Toothpaste(TM) and quickly dressed in the latest Kohls "Greg (the great white shark)  Norman" Collection shirt and shorts he/she is into the Honda Accord and accelerating to the drive-thru at Micky D's and thence to Anywhere Valley Pines National Golf Links of America to meet his/her buddies for a round.

I won't go on, but you get the picture.

I don't want to live in a world where everything is produced with a "what would the average golfer want" mindset.

I think Mike Young's thoughts are more to the " should we design golf courses like ski slopes with different gradients for every skill level, novice through expert". Perhaps a good example of this system would be Merion East vs West course. I believe that a member must achieve a certain handicap level before it is considered appropriate to play the East Course, otherwise they request that you please refine your game on the, also quite entertaining West Course.

I know a lot of "average" people and would not be so condescending of the Hoi Polloi.

[George Pazin]

I think most just want to play more. To me, this means lower cost and shorter time. Of these two, I'd place a higher value on cost - not a huge difference between travel and playing time being 5 hours and 6 1/2 hours - both require a large block of time. The only other thing would be a prevalence of 9 hole courses and/or the ability to play 9.

Design-wise, I'd guess their preferences are as varied as the non-average golfer, so those decrying the "mindset" of designing for the average golfer, whoever that is, are a bit mistaken in their criticism.

[Just mho, as always, sorry to those (in Indiana) that I may have offended by sharing.]

[John Kavanaugh]

George,

I am not offended, I am confused.  You say cost is the barrier keeping you from playing, so really, you can't afford to spend $20 to walk 9 holes now and then?  See, I don't think the problem is cost at all, more like some misconceived fantasy value logarithm.

It's like when a food aficionado says he can no longer afford to eat out.

[George Pazin]

Actually, for me, it really is time; when I said cost, I was looking more at the big picture for the average golfer. I'm in a weird stage right now in my life, don't really care to get into on here. I am hoping to play more this summer, and a lot more in future summers. I consider my home muni to be a fantastic value, so it would fit my own personal misconceived fantasy value logarithm.

Thanks for asking, have a nice day.

[Terry Lavin]

The average golfer would probably have his dreams achieved if he could have one summer happily playing the golf courses that many of us are privileged to play summer after summer, even though we're often whining all the way!

[Brian Marion]

A week or so ago, I wrote that the fundamentals of the golf business are strong because the customers are addicts, and addicts are the best customers any business could ever want to have.

I want to clarify that when I said "the golf business", I meant the business of catering to GOLFERS.

After reading this thread, it's clear to me that the fundamentals of the business of "getting money out of the pockets of people who don't give a shit about golf" are inexhorably fuc*ed.

If you own or run a golf course and you're thinking that a guy who doesn't care enough about golf to:
(a) learn how to play it,
 
(b) learn and respect its etiquette, rules, historical values and

(c) allocate a disproportionately large portion of his disposable income to the game ...

... is the guy you should be catering to and/or banking on, then you're f**ked, too.

He's no addict. He's gone with the wind.  He bought rollerblades. He bought a humidor when cigars were in.  He doesn't give a damn about the game. 

Wanna know the fundamentals of catering to him?  Ask the guys who used to be in the rollerblade and humidor businesses.
     

. 

100%

[Tim Nugent]

Seriously, What's the average golfer looking for?
 #1 - his ball. No way he wants to lose that priceless sphere.
 #2 - a place to get away from the toils of life, and get out of the house.
 #3 - an excuse to connect with some friends.

[Doug Siebert]

The average golfer would probably have his dreams achieved if he could have one summer happily playing the golf courses that many of us are privileged to play summer after summer, even though we're often whining all the way!

He has his dreams achieved when playing the courses we whine about, and whines about playing the courses we achieve our dreams on...

[George Pazin]

So you're an addict or an a-hole?

John, thought a bit more about this last night, realized you're right about cost being a barrier. It's only a barrier to the high end courses and clubs, not to the game itself, which can be enjoyed quite a bit for relatively low amounts. Time is a much bigger factor for many, and I don't know what can be done about that. I think this summer I am going to try sneaking out early, 7ish, for 9 holes a couple times a week.

[John Kavanaugh]

So you're an addict or an a-hole?

John, thought a bit more about this last night, realized you're right about cost being a barrier. It's only a barrier to the high end courses and clubs, not to the game itself, which can be enjoyed quite a bit for relatively low amounts. Time is a much bigger factor for many, and I don't know what can be done about that. I think this summer I am going to try sneaking out early, 7ish, for 9 holes a couple times a week.

George,

The key, and most difficult part, is to find a friend who will meet you for 9 holes a couple of times a week.  Peoples inability to build golfing acquaintances is their greatest barrier to more golf.

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