[jonathan_becker]

Phil,

That's right.  The water is well short of 13 green and isn't in play unless you fat it off the tee.  Thanks.

Also, in regards to the centerline bunker on 5, each play for me was extremely downwind and I was able to fly it over the bunker.  Into the wind, I'm sure that going over it wasn't an option.  All three times i played EH were from the 7200 yard tees in extreme wind or rain and each time the course kicked my ass.  But I'm looking forward to my next round there for sure.

[Mike Wagner]

RJ,

There have been a few notables play it from way back, but in one go, it's tough to post a #.  A local pro shot 68 from the blues earlier in the year - lowest I've heard.

Nuzzo,

I think you're thinking of the 2nd green in reference to being "pushed up."  #1 flows with the terrain and has been the same since inception.  #2 is certianly a "push up" - which works very well for the shortest par 4 on the course.  I'm sure it had to do with drainage as well.  It's been enlarged and is MUCH more playable, but still is a cool little nervy shot.  #2 happens to be one of my favorites - you'll see lots of guys driving it green high in the Am for sure.

[Rob_Waldron]

It appears that the "new" Eric Hills has created a new logo...much better than the old one which was the name in script.

[George Pazin]

That opening post might be the most thoughtful and thorough post I've ever seen on here, and that's saying something. Nicely done.

Gotta digest the rest.

[PCCraig]

Pat,

I always like hearing thoughts about a player's first trip around EH, thanks.  I like the place but it's definitely different.

Could you elaborate a little on why you think there is little reward in going for #14?  To me, it's the most "go" shot on the course.  Maybe it's just a difference in our playing styles, but I'm curious.  Thanks.

Jonathan:

If I remember from the Midwest Mashie...you're a pretty long hitter. Thankfully we played the 14th downwind in about a 15-25mph wind

On paper the 14th looks like a great risk reward par-5, and I hit my drive well eough in between the bunkers/marsh on the right that I was staring right at the green....which was located ~230-240 yards away on top of a hill with bunkers left, water short, and a steep fairway length hill right which was the closest thing to a bail out area I could find. To me, a 4 handicap, there wasn't nearly enough reward to outwiegh the huge amount of risks the shot at hand held. So I hit out left leaving my second shot a 100 yards away for an easy pitch onto the green.

I have no doubt that 90% of the Tour Pros will go for the green...but otherwise I can't imagine any but the BEST two shots making the green for the average better golfer. 

[jonathan_becker]

Pat,

Thanks for the explanation.  That water short must be a new addition on #14 because I always though that if you missed short it was no big deal because you could always pitch it back up the hill no problem.   

Now that I think of it, I believe that Mr. Moore told me that water was going to be a new addition to the hole.  I'll give you that it does change the decision when going for it in 2 and laying up doesn't sound so bad afterall.   

[Brendan Dolan]

Mike,

Here is a photo prior to construction of the 1st green site.  A little fill was added and yes the back does have a knob in it that helps a ball stop a bit, but for the most part that green flows from front to back.  The green is just left of the large stump on the side of the hill.   



Thought I would include a shot of the second green site prior to construction.  Hard to believe that the feature was always there



Brendan

[PCCraig]

Brendan:

Thanks for posting those pictures of the site prior to construction. It is very interesting to see how little earth they moved in spots!

[George Freeman]

I will chime in with my thoughts on the course and some additional photos at some point this week.

In the meantime:  Brendan, those pictures are awesome!  It is VERY cool to see the site pre-construction.  I assume you have many more photos from the same day?  Would you mind doing a "pre-construction" course tour?  Having something like that would be extremely cool and educational.

Thanks!

George

[Patrick Hodgdon]

I'm I the only one getting an error message where the photos should be? Would love to view the tour Phil laid out.

[Phil McDade]

Patrick:

I'm working on restoring these-- it proved so popular, it overloaded my photobucket account....

[Jim Eder]

Phil,

TERRIFIC write-up!!! Fantastic photography!! Just superb.  Thanks for including the link in a another thread as I didn't know about this one.

I hope the course plays firm and fast but I am just not sure it will be able to happen. Let's hope, as it is an excellent course. Should be some fun USGA events.

[Brendan Dolan]

George,

I was actually on the construction crew that built the original version of EH.  Great experience!  I wish I would have taken more pictures then I did.  The ones I did get are back at my parents house, and I will try to dig them up next time I am in Wisconsin.  My pops suggested that I pick a certain spot on a particular hole and take a picture every day as the construction progressed, as a 20 year old I didn't heed his advice.  How cool would that have been to see a hole go from the state the architect found it in to completion? 

Brendan

[Ari Techner]

Thanks for the pics.  I need to get back to EH to see for myself but I am disappointed in alot of the changes.  The one hole that does look alot better now is #1.  I played it numerous times before the changes were made and really enjoyed the course.  Very natural and very unique.  Did I hear right that it is walking only now?

[Mike Wagner]

Well then, could you gents tell us what the top of the field for the mid-am qualifier turned in for scores?      I'd imagine they didn't play it totally from the waybacks.  I remember when the course first opened there was a PR story about Steve Stricker giving it a go from 7800 and shooting ~77.  Have any notables taken it on from the tips in the new presentation, that you could reveal?  I am guessing that might be sort of delicate to answer, without the player giving permission to comment,  but I'm hoping not. 

Would it be fair to say that this is a bomb and gouge big hitters course, or a Zack Johnsonesque, always play the 5s as 3 shotters, and maybe even several of the par 4s, from the tips?

RJ,

It's kind of a combination based on set up.  Next year will be very telling with the AM.  Davis can make all the par 5s reachable or completely NOT reachable in two.  #11 can also be driveable or extremely long.  Wind will be a huge factor as well. 
As far as the scores from the mid-am, they're on usga.org.  They were lower than I expected.

[Phil McDade]

Mike:

My sense is that the course for the Mid-Am played pretty soft, due to overnight rains, so although long, some of the strategy of the course was lost, i.e, not alot of balls bounding down the fairway that found bunkers or fescue (although there was some of each). Wind for the Mid-Am was pretty nominal, as I recall.

As others have mentioned, and you can really gain a sense of this walking it, there is a lot elasticity to the course.

I like #s 7 and 14 as par 5s shortened up; they carry more risk for those going for it in two up to, and around, the greens.

[Mark McKeever]

Phil,

Excellent photo tour.  Thanks much for posting!

Makr

[PCCraig]

The people at Erin Hills should praying for warm and dry weather leading up to next August's US Am as I think the course would play much much better F&F than the wet conditions seen this past summer. (I do know it was a much wetter summer than usual, but still).

To echo Jim's comments on another thread, the combo of Erin Hills and Blue Mound for the two stroke play sites will be very neat to see and I'm almost as inclined to head up to BM to watch them tear the shorter course apart off the tee and three putt a few of the greens

As cool (and more politically connected) as Blue Mound is, how much cooler would it of been if they had used the nearby Lawsonia Links as a stroke play site instead...now that would of been neat. 

[Andrew Lewis]

I played EH last Friday -- the course was very firm and fast due to recent dryness and a steady 10mph breeze.  Excellent conditions for golf.

This was my first visit and one thing that stood out was how the majority of greensites were either quite elevated from the fairway, fronted by bunkers or both.  In the wind, the combination of generally small-ish elevated targets and really firm green surfaces made some of the approaches near-impossible, given the lack of options for running/feeding shots onto the greens when downwind...I'm thinking of the 4th hole downwind in particular.  A bit perplexing but again, this was my first visit and perhaps some of those shots become more apparent upon repeated plays.

(Ari Techner -- The course is indeed walking only, either with a caddy or carrying one's bag...no pull/push carts allowed.)

[Bill Seitz]

It was hard to tell from the pictures (which I couldn't see on this thread last month), but did they shave down the hump on the front portion of the 15th green?  It would have been just outside the right frame of the picture that Phil posted.  I thought it made for a nice bowl to the left of the ridge, but the last time I played there, the pin was set to the right, and it made the green almost impossible to putt.  Otherwise, that's a great hole.

I'll miss the Dell hole, because I always enjoyed playing something fairly unique, but I look forward to the chance to get up there and play the new version.  Great pictures, Phil.

[Matt_Ward]

Thanks for posting the info -- curious to know from anyone who has played both -- how do Erin Hills and Chambers Bay match up ?

[Mike Wagner]

Matt,

They're two pretty different experiences.  EH has A4 bent greens and fescue fairways - it's an aerial course.  There are only a couple holes that allow for realistic run up approaches.  Chambers has them all over the place.

EH can have MUCH more wind.  It can really blow out there.  CB is realtively mild in that regard.  The subsoil is extremely diffferent, so in general, CB has the potential to play a little firmer day on average.

Both are awesome.

[Sven Nilsen]

Bill:

I think they did shave the ridge down a bit.  Its still noticeable and definitely divides the green into left and right segments, although the recovery putt from one side to the other is now a lot more manageable.

Matt:

I agree with Mike that CB and EH are very different experiences, but perhaps not for the reasons he notes.  Both are tough walks, but EH in general is a much flatter site than CB.  Both have plenty of width, but where CB has vast waste bunkers guarding the fairways, EH generally has tall prairie grass (the rough wasn't especially nasty as of three weeks ago, but I could see the USGA growing it in to an almost intolerable level).  CB seemed to me to be a course that placed a premium on distance and accuracy off of the tee, due mostly to the holes with forced carries or canted fairways.  EH may be a bit more forgiving off of the tee, but there are a few holes where being in the right spot is imperative.  CB is also a much more compact course, with views of multiple holes from all over the course.  EH is a bit more spread out and other than the cross overs from 7 to 8 and from 17 to 18, the nine hole loops cover different parts of the property.

I don't necessarily agree that EH is an aerial course.  I think you could play the ground game on a number of holes, including 1, 3, 5, 10, 11, 12, 16, 17 and 18 (where a draw to a back left pin is a very fun shot).  There are definitely differences in the turf and the ground, but under the right conditions EH can play very fast and firm.

[Tim_Cronin]

Phil, thanks for a great post. It's a GCA all-timer!

[Mike Wagner]

Sven,

Interesting take - always intersting to read different perspectives.  There's absolutely no way I would ever even come close to considering EH and easier driving course than CB.  It's way too penal right now - the fescue is too thick.  I also don't think it's flatter, I actually think it's more up/down than CB.

The reality of the ground game at EH on #s 5, 10, 11, 16, & 18 aren't what I would call realistic options.  They might be there for a mis-hit shot, but it's not something I would seriously consider.  That's why I like your take - I just don't see those shots.  I don't think you'll see them at the AM next year, but who knows....

It's interesting to me, these two courses get compared all the time (mainly because they opened at the same time and were awarded events), but they're just so different.  I think people get confused because EH has a linksy "feel" but it's just not the reality out there.  That being said, the changes are amazing and the course is in fantastic shape.  Compared to years past, it will do nothing but get better and better...

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