[archie_struthers]

 


At my home club there is a continuing lament about the quality of the bunkers. We are an affordable private (less than  $5,000 a year all in)  and are located at the Jersey Shore, ..... Snookie and her "crew" are not members .  What we do have is a lot of complaints about the lack of sand and the firmness of same.  Having played at some fine establishments with high priced budgets and beautiful sand ( appearance wise)  , the performance of same leaves me quite cold.  Lots of plugs, heavy heavy lies after just a little rain on these high priced beauties. Given the right equipment and a little talent , our " native " sand plays far easier for a good player but it  appears no amount of proof from "experts" will quiet the masses on this issue...they want the soft pretty sand ...  and all that accompanies same

[Bill Brightly]

I'd say as long as your sand is consistant throughout the course, ignore the whiners. Well, not really ignore them, perhaps try to educate them. Maybe a note to the members or a small blurb on the scorecard describing the type of hazard your course presents, and why. Maybe even have your pro offer a special sand shot clinic...

[archie_struthers]

 


Billl thanks and I've been there and done that , what you say is so true!  You just can't convince a lot of people that the firm , hard variety plays so much better once you understand the dynamics of the shot.  Thye just skull one and then moan and moan and moan  LOL  I fear that plugged lies and soft sand is coming soon to a golf course near me   arghhhh!     I've seen more and more expense associated with bunker maintenance over the last two decades and just see it as a real waste of resources for all butthe very best clubs with no cash flow issues. 

Am still amazed that so many people don't appreciate a good "HAZARD"   it's a phenomenon that has some roots in the emphasis on stroke play here in the States . and the quest for perfect conditions ....as the golf economy continues to struggle, it's almost a given that lots of clubs will spend less on bunker maintenance and the skinny flanged SW will make a comeback  ....

[Dan Herrmann]

Bill,
A story for you...  In early July, Chester County PA was hit with quite a thunderstorm.  We had 80MPH straight-line winds for 5-10 minutes.  Pretty scary, actually. Trees down everywhere and multi-day power outages.

An unexpected effect was discovered after my course reopened.  Turned out that some of the bunkers lost most of their sand as a result of the wind.

Once again they were hazardous.  It took a deft touch to get the ball out of a deep bunker with only an inch or two of sand.  It was FUN.  It was a CHALLENGE.  It was GOLF.    (heck, the shot really isn't that tough - just toe-in the sand wedge and swing a little more gently)

Hazards aren't supposed to be easy

Most of the sand has been replaced now, but not to the depth previously seen (gotta save money!).  Turns out that the golf gods knew what they were doing

(We had wanted to cut down the sand volume which was added as a good-faith effort by a previous super)

[Mike Bowline]

I agree firm sand is the best sand. Too bad it takes new sand so long to consolidate and lose its fluffiness.

[Dan Herrmann]

Mike,
We'd need a superintendant to confirm, but I'm pretty sure that not all sand is created equally.  The shape and size of the sand makes a huge difference in how it compacts or fluffs.

[archie_struthers]

 

Yes the sand can be bought in lots of configurations , weight and shape of grain,,,,butttttttt........it's really really expensive and most of the time doesn't work out IMHO...give me the gnarly , gritty stuuf everytime but lots of members and some good supers even just don't quite get it ....

[Mike Bowline]

Mike,
We'd need a superintendant to confirm, but I'm pretty sure that not all sand is created equally.  The shape and size of the sand makes a huge difference in how it compacts or fluffs.

Dan, you exactly correct about not all sands being equal. Nevertheless, even sand specified by the architect to eventually be firm and compacted will be "fluffy" when installed until is has had a chance to consolidate through water application and general overall settlement due to background and local vibration.

[Mike_Trenham]

Archie

Do you also have fewer washouts after a storm because they are so firm?

Washouts create a bunch of labor often when you are trying to catch up from lost mowing time...

How well do the bunkers drain today?

I believe the PGA Tour's prep team works with clubs to get the bunkers firm, maybe with some confirmation on here you can use the "firm is the way the Tour does it" argument. 

[Sean_A]

At my home club there is a continuing lament about the quality of the bunkers. We are an affordable private (less than  $5,000 a year all in)  and are located at the Jersey Shore, ..... Snookie and her "crew" are not members .  What we do have is a lot of complaints about the lack of sand and the firmness of same.  Having played at some fine establishments with high priced budgets and beautiful sand ( appearance wise)  , the performance of same leaves me quite cold.  Lots of plugs, heavy heavy lies after just a little rain on these high priced beauties. Given the right equipment and a little talent , our " native " sand plays far easier for a good player but it  appears no amount of proof from "experts" will quiet the masses on this issue...they want the soft pretty sand ...  and all that accompanies same

Archie, yes, the soft sand is a pig, but hard sand can sometimes be even worse.  I am thinking of Yeamans Hall (The Ocean Course and Tobacco Road are the same but they are called waste areas) with its Raynor high walls and hard sand.  Most guys will suffer a lot of lost and frustrating strokes when in hard bunkers with 8 foot walls.  I don't suggest softening the sand (though I see nothing wrong with inconsistent sand consistency), but far fewer bunkers instead.  I am not sure how, but the sand consistency on links always seems perfect to me.  There is the odd fried egg or hard lie, but usually the sand is perfect for golf.

Ciao

[Dan Herrmann]

Sean,
Sure, links sand IS perfect.  But have you ever tried to get that experience on a non sand-based golf course?  Personally, I've never seen it done (although Merion comes very, very close)

[Trey Stiles]

As we used to say in Racing , " Speed cost money , How fast do you want to Go ? " 

The cost of sand can vary significantly , In the greater Houston market ( my numbers are a few years old ) the cost of sand can be as little as $ 20.00 per ton delivered and as much as $ 120.00++ per ton delivered .

The big dog clubs are using the expensive stuff , it's plays great and you pay for it ... The regular guys are using the less expensive stuff , when conditions are right , it plays good.

My experience has been that the biggest factor is drainage ... If the bunker drains well , it generally plays well ... If it does not drain well , it's always going to be a challenge.

I don't think I've ever met a supt. that would agree to using a bunker sand that did not meet specs ... If you want your head to spin around , get into a technical discussion about sands with an expert ... You might be surprised

Final thought : If you hit it in the bunker , accept whatever challenge you get ... The architect did not hit it in there , the supt. did not hit it in there ... Nobody ever said this thing was supposed to be fair .

[Sean_A]

Sean,
Sure, links sand IS perfect.  But have you ever tried to get that experience on a non sand-based golf course?  Personally, I've never seen it done (although Merion comes very, very close)

Dan

To be honest I never really thought about sand until I played these courses with hard pan sand like Tobacco Road, TOC and Yeamans Hall. I just treated sand as a hazard to be avoided and one can't complain too much if he catches one.  In hindsight, this new experience of hard sand (especially with high walls) may be one of the reasons I started my bunker crusade in earnest. 

Ciao 

[jeffwarne]

I'd say as long as your sand is consistant throughout the course, ....

Just the other day I played a course where some of the water was deep, some shallow,some muddy, some had REEDS in it.
By the end of the day I just didn't know how to play those water shots so I started avoiding them......

[Jud_T]

Archie,

As long as the drainage is good and the sand's consistent, I wouldn't sweat it...

[Jason Topp]

One of the things I loved about Sand Belt bunkers was that they were not consistent.  Sometimes you had a nice traditional lie and other times you were in hardpan.  I thought it made bunker shots much more interesting, but not unreasonably difficult if you read the lie correctly. 

By contrast, the typical Ohio's Best bleached bunker shot is nearly the same every time and incredibly jarring to the eye without sunglasses. 

[archie_struthers]

 


Thanks for the support guys another intersting thread might be about the cost of maintaining "good" bunkers and how you can build them to help with same.  Architecturally speaking , the future might hold less sand bunkering and more grass bunkers given the cost to maintain and build them to resist storms and silting....cheers

[Dan Herrmann]

Archie,
Just use Twisted Dune as a very good example of how to do it right

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