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Tom MacWood

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Re: The Mystery of North Shore CC - Raynor's First Course?
« Reply #100 on: December 15, 2009, 06:59:15 AM »
Steve
Somewhere you asked about the original yardage at North Shore. The course was scheduled to host the 1917 Metropolitan Open, but it was postponed due to the War. The course did get the 1919 Metro Open, but I could not find the scorecard for that event. I did find the breakdown for the 1920 US Amateur, when the course was used in the qualifying round with Engineers (where the match was held). It was a relatively short course for its day. I also found a blurb from the NY Times at the time the course was chosen for the 1917 Metropolitan championship.

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George_Bahto

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Re: The Mystery of North Shore CC - Raynor's First Course?
« Reply #101 on: December 15, 2009, 10:37:53 AM »
Steve: I only found information prior to Raynor beginning the course in 1915 in the Times articles........

What I did find was the chronological details about the founding of the course, Harmonie, Crescent, Glenwood etc and the info that Dev Emmet was the course designer (1912) for the course (under the Raynor course). That was about the first nine holes - I still don't know if he ever finished the other nine.

Raynor got paid the $1,800 to design and build North Shore, as you know.

Still NOTHING about Tillie. I don't think he could have done anything on the course after Raynor. Raynor's look is intact as far as I can tell (except the Biarritz hole seems different).

Could the club have just gotten the Tillie information wrong, and Bill Quirin just picked it up from them. Everything else seems cut and dry.


One day while I was there having some lunch -  I looked at the place mat and saw what ended up to be the basic Raynor routing, right there in front of everyone. Go figure.

The scorecard on the placemat, on a 1933 scorecard and today's card are the same.

The back to back par 3's (#9 and #10) and the back to back par 5's (#3 and #4), confirms to me, one each of those holes were two of the five holes that he had to use on his new course. Raynor would not be building consecutive holes like that.

Also there is no Short on the course.
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
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Tom MacWood

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Re: The Mystery of North Shore CC - Raynor's First Course?
« Reply #102 on: December 15, 2009, 12:18:27 PM »
George
Glenwood was 18-holes when the course were sold to Harmonie (North Shore).

This report from 1911 gives the scorecard for the proposed course -- its interesting to note there are no back-to-back par-3s or par-5s. Apparently there was a 9-hole course that predated Glenwood; I've not seen any indication holes from the original nine were incorporated into Glenwood.
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Jim_Kennedy

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Re: The Mystery of North Shore CC - Raynor's First Course?
« Reply #103 on: December 15, 2009, 01:00:32 PM »
Does this have any relevance:

Nov. 1902
Plans for a club house for the Sea Cliff Golf Club, which with its removal to south Sea Cliff, has changed its name to the "Glenola Park Golf Club", are being prepared, and the clubhouse will be ready for occupancy in the Spring
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: The Mystery of North Shore CC - Raynor's First Course?
« Reply #104 on: December 15, 2009, 08:45:42 PM »
George,


You should have taken that placemat from the club. ;D  I'll ask to see if they still have them.

Most of the stuff about Glenwood and the sale to Harmonie is in Quirin's book quoting from Emil Goldmark's address about the purchase.

The Tillinghast attribution by the club and Quirin remains a mystery.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
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George_Bahto

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Re: The Mystery of North Shore CC - Raynor's First Course?
« Reply #105 on: December 15, 2009, 11:06:12 PM »
I have the place mat - it's paper


I'll post it when I get a chance
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: The Mystery of North Shore CC - Raynor's First Course?
« Reply #106 on: December 18, 2009, 08:39:36 PM »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Ronald Montesano

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Re: The Mystery of North Shore CC - Raynor's First Course?
« Reply #107 on: March 21, 2010, 07:22:35 AM »
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