Anthony Gray

Long Walks Between Holes
« on: March 25, 2009, 08:01:23 pm »


  What are some of the long walks between holes?

  Do you like or dislike them?

  How much does the walk between holes effect the routing?


  Anthony

TEPaul

Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2009, 08:05:01 pm »
Anthony:

Just to show you how obnoxious long walks between holes apparently used to be, up until 1877 it was actually restricted to a number of club-lengths by the Rules of Golf!  ;)

Rob_Kimball

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2009, 08:07:03 pm »
Anthony, I can't do the search feature as well as others, but there was a discussion some time ago regarding the walk from the 5th green to 6th tee box at Pebble Beach. Hopefully someone can find it (or not, I guess).

It included some nice artwork by Huckaby if I remember correctly.   :)

-- Rob

Tim Bert

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2009, 08:12:16 pm »
Yale 9 to 10 long walk.  Both holes are worth it, but it is a trek.

Crystal Downs 11 to 12 and 16 to 17.  Beautiful walk but not convinced I love the flow.

Pilgrim's Run - I'm blanking on the exact holes but it is toward the end of the front nine (either 7 to 8 or 8 to 9??)

There can't be many longer than my grand prize winner....

Ted Rhodes golf course in Nashville 10 to 11 and then again 17 to 18.  I'm thinking half-mile.


Anthony Gray

Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2009, 08:14:56 pm »


  Any photos of the canadian course that has a nice walk?

  Anthony


Dan Kelly

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2009, 08:19:11 pm »
There can't be many longer than my grand prize winner....

Ted Rhodes golf course in Nashville 10 to 11 and then again 17 to 18.  I'm thinking half-mile.

Try Jeff Brauer's Legend course at Giants Ridge. There's one green-to-tee trek (or ride) on the back side that has to be way longer than half a mile.

Jeff can give the particulars, and the explanation.

Perhaps, while he's at it, he can tell you about one (?) environmentalist's objection to his final par-3 on that same course.
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2009, 08:26:54 pm »


  Any photos of the canadian course that has a nice walk?

  Anthony



See Ran's profile of Cape Breton Highlands, the 480 yard walk from 12 green to 13 tee.  That doesn't seem to bad to me as long as it's not straight up hill.

Tim Nugent

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2009, 08:28:39 pm »
I think it's safe to say that nearly everyone dispises long walks.  Therefore, I don't believe anyone in their right mind would purposely design them in.  Most stem from 1 of 3 circumstances. 1) environmental concerns that must be skirted, 2) terrain not condusive to holes being contiguous, (and as a subset, rock), 3) stuck with a poor landplan.
Coasting is a downhill process

Andy Troeger

Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2009, 08:29:14 pm »
Yale 9 to 10 long walk.  Both holes are worth it, but it is a trek.

Crystal Downs 11 to 12 and 16 to 17.  Beautiful walk but not convinced I love the flow.

Pilgrim's Run - I'm blanking on the exact holes but it is toward the end of the front nine (either 7 to 8 or 8 to 9??)

There can't be many longer than my grand prize winner....

Ted Rhodes golf course in Nashville 10 to 11 and then again 17 to 18.  I'm thinking half-mile.



Tim,
Believe it or not, Ironbridge Club in Glenwood Springs, CO beats that one handily--I believe the staff estimated the trek from #9 green to #10 tee at a little over a mile. Then #13 to #14 would be almost that. #1 to #2 and #8 to #9 would also be about half mile treks. Arthur Hills design.

Oh...the walk up to #10 is essentially up the side of the mountain  ;D  At least #13 to #14 is back down...

I'll be impressed if anyone can top all that!

JeffTodd

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2009, 08:31:42 pm »
Best long walk between tees is Yale #9 to #10, and it's really not that long. Climbing up to #10 tee once you arrive is more arduous than the walk.

The most offensive walk that immediately comes to mind is Cape May National. The walk from #9 to #10 was roughly 800 yards, as confirmed by Google Earth. It was an exclamation point on an already odd routing which seems to be too hell bent on having returning nines. With close to a half mile separating the front and back, I am certain that it is entirely possible to putt out on #9 and then watch the players behind you pass you in carts before you reach the next tee on foot.

Brad Klein

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2009, 08:42:58 pm »
Journey at Pechanga, Temecula, Cal. Arthur Hills-designed casino course.  From fifth green to 6th tee is over 1/2 mile and a 250 foot ascent.

By contrast, the 480-yard walk at Cape Breton Highland Links along that river bed from 12th green to 13th tee is just a lovely ground-level stroll, the perfect distance to get a decent corona lit up and going.

Watch for some amazingly long stretches between holes at next week's Nationwide Tour event at TPC San Francisco Bay at Stonebrae.  It will be interesting to count the number of cart transits they set up for players and caddies.

Dave Givnish

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2009, 08:44:30 pm »
Seven Canyons has to win at least one prize.  Eight green to nine tee is long (3 to 4 minutes in a cart) enough to warrant a player assistant stationed there to help you find your way.  That's on top of the 10-minute drive from the temporary clubhouse to the practice tee.  The views are good on the way, though.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2009, 08:54:09 pm »
The walk at Cape Breton Highlands is the longest one I've seen that was meant to be walked.  I thought that was genius ... you are in a National Park there, and it's an enforced break which makes you appreciate the setting.  [So, turning it into a cart ride is awful.]

Long cart rides like the one Brad described are pretty bad.  Another course that has a few of those is Peninsula Papagayo in Costa Rica ... there are a couple of rides which must be 1/2 mile and a couple hundred feet uphill, too.  There probably wasn't any other solution for that property, though.

A good routing for a golf course is all about trying to avoid awkward transitions between holes, just as much as it is about finding good holes.  But, you have to keep your mind open to the possibility that a relatively long transition will be worth the walk, as opposed to other possible solutions for a particular stretch of land.

Jason Topp

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2009, 08:57:17 pm »
I'm not sure how long it is but this one at Barnbougle is my favorite. (edit to reduce size)



« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 08:58:49 pm by Jason Topp »

Sean_A

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2009, 09:01:52 pm »
The walk along the beach to Crail's back holes is lovely and welcome, but this is a very rare instance.  There aren't many holes out there in which the quality of the hole justifies the long walk.  Usually, nasty terrain or housing is the reason.  Speaking of nasty terrain, folks love to play through huge dunes, but one side effect is that these dunes can often cause several longish walks in a round (and constrict play when the wind is up!).  Hence one reason that I welcome some flatter terrain when playing in these sort of dunes.  

Ciao
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Anthony Gray

Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2009, 09:06:51 pm »

  OK....Cruden Bay again.....I love the walk up the hill. There are placesyou can stop and enjoy the view. And at the top you just have to pause and take it all in. The walk back down is wonderful also.


  Anthony


Steve Salmen

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2009, 09:08:37 pm »
A couple years ago I played a pretty awful course in the SD area called Carmel Mountain Ranch.  It seemed every tee was miles from the previous green.  A bunch of holes between a bunch of houses.  Not so enjoyable a walk.

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2009, 09:15:54 pm »
The infamous and often-discussed hole 13-14 trek on Bandon Trails (which now features shuttle service) sticks out like a sore thumb on a course that features fairly short transitions everywhere else. Still, I think the resulting holes are worth it.

Then , of course, there is the 5-minute (no joke) cart ride between the 11th and 12th holes at The Ranch (San Jose, CA), the longest of many ridiculous commutes on the least golf-worthy site I've ever suffered.

The Course at Wente Vineyard (Livermore, CA) features a cart path which must rival the Pechanga transition mentioned by Mr. Klein, climbing 250 feet from #9 to #10 with 8 or 9 switchbacks on the side of a cliff.

The biggest problem I've seen with long transitions occurs when some are riding while others walk. Big gaps and pileups as the walkers simply can't keep pace.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 09:18:05 pm by Kyle Henderson »
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PThomas

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2009, 09:20:21 pm »
A couple years ago I played a pretty awful course in the SD area called Carmel Mountain Ranch.  It seemed every tee was miles from the previous green.  A bunch of holes between a bunch of houses.  Not so enjoyable a walk.

yea but other than that it was great right Steve? ::) :P
Quest to play the 2006 GW Top 100 Lists (and any other good courses): 181 played, only 19 left to go

Chuck Brown

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2009, 09:32:12 pm »
I think it's safe to say that nearly everyone dispises long walks.  Therefore, I don't believe anyone in their right mind would purposely design them in.  Most stem from 1 of 3 circumstances. 1) environmental concerns that must be skirted, 2) terrain not condusive to holes being contiguous, (and as a subset, rock), 3) stuck with a poor landplan.

100% correct, I think.

The other thing to add is that golf carts ennable these kinds of distances, and then reinforce themsleves insofar as they becoem necessary in order to get around the course in a decent amount of time.

Long distances between the last green and the next tee are basically an evil.  The fact that there may be nice scenery along the way makes them only slightly less evil.  The fact that long distances may enhance the "last" hole and the "next" by isolating playing groups from one another is, I suppose, a valid benefit.  But it does not outweigh all of the basic problems of having that distance in the first place.

I genuinely believe that subconsciously, the reason that so many people get such enjoyment out of older golf courses, is the connection they feel to the routing when there are no large gaps between the last green and the next tee.  It is one of the first things I think about when I rate my own personal enjoyment of a golf course.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2009, 09:32:30 pm »
There's no excuse for the long walk from 6 to 7 at Black Mesa. A great hole could have been laid out from near the 6 greeen. I walked the first round and took advantage of the free cart for my second round. Even the cart refused to go from 6 to 7 and I had to send course personel out to get it after finishing 9.
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Michael H

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2009, 09:34:11 pm »
The walk from the 16th green to 17th tee at World Woods Pine Barrens approximates 150 yards, as does the walk from the 17th green to 18th tee - all to play a hole dominated by an overgrown tree line.

Bogey
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Anthony Gray

Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2009, 09:36:11 pm »
The walk along the beach to Crail's back holes is lovely and welcome, but this is a very rare instance.  There aren't many holes out there in which the quality of the hole justifies the long walk.  Usually, nasty terrain or housing is the reason.  Speaking of nasty terrain, folks love to play through huge dunes, but one side effect is that these dunes can often cause several longish walks in a round (and constrict play when the wind is up!).  Hence one reason that I welcome some flatter terrain when playing in these sort of dunes.  

Ciao

   Crail is a pleasent walk.

  Anthony


Tom Huckaby

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2009, 09:37:08 pm »
Kyle - when doing the course rating at  THE RANCH, just for kicks we measured the cart ride from 11 to 12... it came out just a little less than a mile.

I still say that course is the one to bring the militant walkers into the light....  or darkness as it were... walking that would be beyond stupid.

And Rob, do you mean this picture? How Pat Mucci sees #6 at Pebble?  Always happy to trot this out....







Jeff Tang

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Re: Long Walks Between Holes
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2009, 09:41:14 pm »
The walk between the fourth green and fifth tee at Blackwolf Run River is a long way, but I don't mind it because it's a reall cool walk through the trees and the next nine holes that follow may be among my favorite nine consecutive holes anywhere.


So bad it's good!

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