News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Greg Holland

  • Karma: +0/-0
Best Bunkerless Holes
« on: January 16, 2009, 09:40:36 AM »
What are the best examples?  Obviously, 14 at ANGC comes to mind, and as that is one of the wildest greens on the course, it is well defended without any.

What are other examples?

What are the major strategic elements that make the bunkerless hole work?

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2009, 09:58:03 AM »
This one's pretty good; a tee shot over a valley to a green tilted from back-to-front, left-to-right, with a large "don't-go-there" unmowed, grassy area front-left of the green, trouble back-left (a pond, if you really get a bad bounce) and something of a false front to the green. 181 yds from the tips; 155 yds from the white tees.





Bunkerless holes hold interest, for my tastes, with outstanding greens, trouble nearby the greens (interesting terrain or slopes near the greensite) that can make for thought-provoking up-and-downs, and approach shots that demand some degree of precision.

Eric Morrison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2009, 10:23:56 AM »
18 at St. Andrews immediately comes to mind...made par from the Valley of Sin!
It is what it is.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2009, 10:34:25 AM »
One of the best holes in the universe - never mind without a bunker - is "Foxy," #14 at Royal Dornoch.

Therefore it is the best in the universe without a bunker.  Great 440 yard hole that is very hard to describe.  Picture a valley with the green sitting beyond a number of rough-clad moguls off to the right.  The green is elevated maybe 6'.  I made two bogies and a par and was thrilled.  Each time I played my tee shot up the valley - it wouldn't go anywhere in the rough to the right - and followed with a second long iron on the same line, then pitched down the length of the green from below left.  Twice I two putted, once I holed the par putt.

It felt like a birdie!  ;D

Rory Connaughton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2009, 11:26:55 AM »
Enniscrone 15 and 16 are terrific bunkerless holes.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2009, 11:30:02 AM »
I think the 13th at Silloth is bunkerless and it's a great hole.  An uphill par 5 with a tee shot played short of a gap, after which the hole plays up a hog's back with a green that falls away on all sides.

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2009, 12:31:01 PM »
7 at Inverness, Toledo, Ohio (D. Ross).
jeffmingay.com

Mark Manuel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2009, 01:19:12 PM »
Amen on 7 at Inverness, great golf hole.  What I like is that you almost wish there was a bunker around that green to keep you ball close.
The golf ball is like a woman, you have to talk it on the off chance it might listen.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2009, 01:20:22 PM »
Course I grew up on had 13 holes without a bunker... ironically enough I became a rather good bunker player.

D_Malley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2009, 01:44:12 PM »
from the bunkerless pocono manor east hole
5-6-10-11-14
sorry no pictures

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2009, 01:52:55 PM »
 #7 at Rolling Green >:(
AKA Mayday

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2009, 02:50:47 PM »
There are many examples.

One of my favourites is the 14th at County Louth / Baltray

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2009, 03:04:41 PM »
The 14th at NSW has always been one of my favourites.






Phil_the_Author

Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2009, 03:15:57 PM »
Jeff & Mark,

On November 25th in 1935 Tilly visited the Inverness Club while on his PGA Course Consultation Tour and redesigned the 7th green.

According to his report, he was asked to help them find a solution for "The problem, which they particularly desired me to advise them about, was that of the Seventh hole, a dog-leg design of 316 yards. Here a badly contoured green, sloping decidedly from right to left, presented its most attractive approach after a drive to a section far to the left and altogether widely apart from the fairway as originally conceived (viz.- a drive to the right and an approach swinging to the green to the left). I gave to them a plan of recontouring the green, cutting down its size on the left (it was much too big for the short shot) raising the left front vigorously and fitting a pit into this. They agreed that this solution was exactly what they were looking for and expressed themselves as being greatly pleased by my suggestion..."

I am wondering first if the work was done and if the "pit" he recommended was ever put in? If so, who & when removed it and why?

Consider how the simple naming of this hole as an example of one of the "best bunkerless holes" shows that possibly at least three different architects had their hand on getting it to this point, one of whom, at the very least, having wanted to bunker it!

Here the fun of researching golf history is demonstrated by a single memorable hole. There must be a very interesting story here...  

Don Hyslop

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2009, 04:25:15 PM »
 I have to suggest the second hole at Highland Links. It has been given recognition as one of the world's best. It plays at 447 yds, par 4 with a dogleg right. During the summer you can run the ball on the green. Even at the distance of the photo you can see the interesting contours of the green. This hole
 tumbles downhill with 110 feet of elevation change from tee to green.  The 2nd fairway is littered with humps and bumps normally associated with the links courses in the U.K. In this case, the humps and bumps were created by man. According to Geoffrey Cornish, as the construction crew was clearing the property, Stanley Thompson instructed them precisely where to place stone and rocks in small piles. Thompson covered these piles with soil from the river silt and these random piles became an integral part of the hole.
 
>> Top 500 Golf Holes of the Millenium
Highlands Links - Hole #2, Hole #6 (Only Canadian Course to have two holes listed) - GOLF Magazine - December 1999
 
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 05:47:55 PM by Don Hyslop »
Thompson golf holes were created to look as if they had always been there and were always meant to be there.

Neil_Crafter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2009, 05:10:20 PM »
3rd hole at Royal Adelaide

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2009, 05:13:08 PM »
Great call on 14 NSW.



Would it be a diversion to ask about the holes that could most easily be bunkerless and improve the quality of the hole?


Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2009, 06:02:28 PM »
#6 at Wild Horse is a pretty good hole.....
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2009, 09:04:20 PM »
Phil:

The seventh hole at Inverness in Tillie's day was the second half of today's par-5 8th.  In the 1970's Tom Fazio added two holes early in the front nine, eliminated a par-3 on the back, and combined two short par-4's (the old 7th and 8th) into a par 5 that Lon Hinkle later tried to short-cut because the original two holes wrapped around another fairway.

Today's seventh hole (the great bunkerless par 4 with a stream on the tee shot) was the fifth on Ross' layout when Tillinghast would have seen it.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2009, 09:06:52 PM »
As for bunkerless holes, a lot of modern ones are something of a promotional gimmick ... Weiskopf and Morrish used to have one (and always just one!) on each of their courses.  Amazing how it always worked out that exactly one holes would need no bunkers.

What makes a great bunkerless hole is other good natural hazards ... best of all contour.

There are two little bunkers up by the green of the 8th hole at Crystal Downs, but it is bunkerless for 550 yards from the tee and still one of the great position holes in golf.  One well-placed tree really helps it, though.

Ed Oden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2009, 10:25:02 PM »
Seems like there are a lot of very good bunkerless par 3s, not many par 4s and even fewer par 5s.  Linville has 3 bunkerless par 4s (#2, #3 and #10).  The best of the lot is the 472 yard 3rd:






Phil_the_Author

Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2009, 11:15:19 PM »
Tom,

See I was right... there is a good story behind it! Interestingly, Tilly mentioned having examined and recommended various small changes on "many holes"without giving specifics and also redesigning the 14th green complex in particular as well.

It would be interesting to see if the club has his specific recommendations in their records...

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2009, 04:50:27 AM »
Without a doubt Foxy must head the class.  As a new example and already pointed out, Enniscrone's 15th is very fine.  However, I must always mention Kington when bunkerless holes are in question.  Among 9 candidates of wonderful holes I always think of the greatest finishing hole in golf.



Other particular favourites: Painswick's 6th, Formby's 8th, 3rd at Huntercombe (there are a few other crackers as well) and on and on and on.  

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 07:22:59 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2009, 06:14:05 AM »
Sean,

I love the look of the 18th at Kington. I’m hoping to head to Hay on Wye for some books later this year, so hopefully I’ll get a round in there to see it?

What makes a great bunkerless hole is other good natural hazards ... best of all contour.

As Tom Doak suggests, contours are usually required so to the linksland we must head… Foxy at Royal Dornoch gets my vote as number one hole without a bunker but here are a few more fine examples of bunkerless holes:

Royal Portrush has a number, 384 yard par 4 5th heading out towards the sea (named White Rocks due to the spectacular view at the green), 189 yard par 3 6th coming back inland to a wonderful green (the hole is named Harry Colt no less), the 8th is a par 4 of 384 through the dunes (and called Himalayas), and lastly the par 3 14th Calamity (as recently seen in Mark Rowlinson’s aerial thread, 201 yards of bunkerless heaven (if you hit the green) or hell (if you miss it).

At County Louth (Baltray) I liked the bunkerless par 5 3rd with the blind approach to the green, and the 14th is a nice little bunkerless par 4.

Royal West Norfolk (Brancaster) has the par 5 8th and par 4 9th without bunkers, and both great holes, though there is very little level change on the 8th, I recall Mr Doak rates it highly in his Confidential Guide.

Lastly, at Burnham & Berrow the 1st (par 4 through the dunes) and the 14th (par 3 to a plateau green) are two of my favourites.

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunkerless Holes
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2009, 06:31:57 AM »
Sean,

I love the look of the 18th at Kington. I’m hoping to head to Hay on Wye for some books later this year, so hopefully I’ll get a round in there to see it?

What makes a great bunkerless hole is other good natural hazards ... best of all contour.

As Tom Doak suggests, contours are usually required so to the linksland we must head… Foxy at Royal Dornoch gets my vote as number one hole without a bunker but here are a few more fine examples of bunkerless holes:

Royal Portrush has a number, 384 yard par 4 5th heading out towards the sea (named White Rocks due to the spectacular view at the green), 189 yard par 3 6th coming back inland to a wonderful green (the hole is named Harry Colt no less), the 8th is a par 4 of 384 through the dunes (and called Himalayas), and lastly the par 3 14th Calamity (as recently seen in Mark Rowlinson’s aerial thread, 201 yards of bunkerless heaven (if you hit the green) or hell (if you miss it).

At County Louth (Baltray) I liked the bunkerless par 5 3rd with the blind approach to the green, and the 14th is a nice little bunkerless par 4.

Royal West Norfolk (Brancaster) has the par 5 8th and par 4 9th without bunkers, and both great holes, though there is very little level change on the 8th, I recall Mr Doak rates it highly in his Confidential Guide.

Lastly, at Burnham & Berrow the 1st (par 4 through the dunes) and the 14th (par 3 to a plateau green) are two of my favourites.

Cheers,

James


James

Speaking of Burnham, last weekend I made the 1st look like child's play.  In the icey, frosty conditions I hit driver straight through the gap and to putting range - one of the longest drives I have ever hit - something like 360 yards.  Not quite as far my 400 yarder at the 14th of North Wales (in what  am sure you can guess were very dry and windy conditions), but this is winter afterall!


When are we gonna get a game at Burnham?  I keep waiting for the long awaited email.  Let me know when you are playing Kington - perhaps I can join you.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back