[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

So, I’m locked and loaded for my first UK golf trip this June and I’m very excited.  I glommed on to my father’s group who alternates annual trips between somewhere in the States and the somewhere oversees.  Since they’ve been doing this a couple years already, I’ve entered the fray on the Wales excursion.  While not my first choice for my deflowering, I’m still aflutter with anticipation.  The itinerary was already in place, and here’s our rotation:

Conwy
Nefyn & District
Royal St. David’s
Machynys
Pennard
Pyle & Kenfig
Royal Porthcawl
Southerndown

We/they arrive into Manchester and then play Conwy straight away. Since I’m coming from San Francisco, my flight options may have me arrive a little later.  If I don’t make the group, what do you suggest as an alternative for my play until I connect that evening?  Is Delamere Forest or Sandiway a legitimate option on the way?

And, if I were to exert what limited influence I have on the itinerary at this point are there changes, omissions, etc. that make sense?  With the research I’ve done, and the books/websites I’ve read, I’m not familiar with Machynys, and I also notice we’ve left Aberdovey off the list (for whatever reason).  That seems like a no brainer… if only for the Bernard Darwin link.

[Mark_F]

Royal St Davids is a cheap course to play, but aside from a couple of holes toward the end, it is a pretty flat and boring slog from which you will struggle to separate the holes from each other afterwards.

A real letdown, especially considering the view from the road high above the course as you head into town.

Play another round at Southerndown instead.

[David_Tepper]

Our fellow GCA-er Tom Dunne wrote a very nice article on golf in Wales for the July/August 2007 issue of Travel & Leisure Golf. You can find the article online at:

www.travelandleisure.com/tlgolf/articles/golf-killer-wales/

[Tom Dunne]

Wayne,

Even if Aberdovey's link was to Danny Darwin and not Bernard, you seriously don't want to miss it. If you make it all the way to Harlech, you've got no excuse either! And those two courses together are a fun compare-and-contrast.

David Tepper,

Thanks for the link!

[Kevin Pallier]

Wayne

Other courses you'd probably consider are Asburnham and Tenby in the South and Aberdovey in the North ?

I was a tad dissapponted with P&K - save for the B9 - am glad to see that you're playing it before Porthcawl. I recommend you stay on-site -at the latter - it has one of the best locations of a dormy house anywhere.

As Mark mentioned  -there's is a couple of "flat" holes at Royal St. Davids but I still enjoyed the experience. Not a bad stop-off on the way to Nefyn.

[jeffwarne]

Wayne,
I'm going in June as well (3-10)

Conwy is closed the week we arrive for the Ryder Cup Senior Open so we open with North Wales instead,(after flying into Manchester as well)
followed by Nefyn and District, (possibly Portmadog or Pwllheli),Royal St. David's, Aberdovey, (possibly Borth and Ynlas),Tenby, Ashburnham, Pennard, Royal Portcawl, and Southerndown.
just a leisuely 6 day trip

At the moment I'm weighing Portmadog, Pwllheli, and Borth and Ynlas as i need to choose one (which will affect the entire itinerary). Any thoughts on these compared to each other fromanyone who's played any of them?

also Southerndown vs. Pyle and Kenfig

Thanks,
Jeff

[Tommy Williamsen]

I found Nefyn and District extremely over rated.  Except for a few holes on the peninsula it was a bore.  Beautiful but way out of the way.  Tenby, Aberdovey, and St. David's are worth the trip.  As noted above St. David's is a bit flat on the front side but the holes are very good.  Twp others are a Fowler course on the north west corner called Bull Bay.  It is like nothing you have ever played and is great fun in and around rock outcroppings and gorse on very undulating land on the water.  Since you are at Conwy you might just slip up to North Conwy.  It has some holes that havae to be seen to be believed like back to back par short threes over wild terrain.

[jeffwarne]

Tommy,
Do you mean North Wales Golf Club?
Bull Bay is one I wanted to get to but scheduling issues with Royal St. David's have created logistical problems.
Have you played Holyhead?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Tommy,
Do you mean North Wales Golf Club?
Bull Bay is one I wanted to get to but scheduling issues with Royal St. David's have created logistical problems.
Have you played Holyhead?

Yes you are right, it is North Wales.  I have not played Holyhead but have heard conflicting things about it.  Maybe mark Rowlinson can chime in if he is lurking.

[Tom Dunne]

Tommy's post is spot-on to the word (I LOVED Bull Bay, a special treat courtesy of Mark Rowlinson), but those peninsula holes at Nefyn are not to be missed.

[jeffwarne]

Oh boy,
I'm all screwed up now.,because I've got to go to Bulls Bay.
Mark Rowlinson does speak(write) highly of it.
Bulls Bay over Pwllheli, Portmadog, Borth and Ynlas?

[Tom Dunne]

Oh boy,
I'm all screwed up now.,because I've got to go to Bulls Bay.
Mark Rowlinson does speak(write) highly of it.
Bulls Bay over Pwllheli, Portmadog, Borth and Ynlas?

Without a doubt, but it's far. I think it's about an hour from Conwy and an hour and a half from Nefyn. Still, Bull Bay is Fowler and has definite and consistent character. It also has COWS.  

[Bill_McBride]

If you are flying into Manchester and headed for North Wales, why aren't you playing Hoylake and Wallasey first?  

[jeffwarne]

It's a WALES trip
I thought about it-but it's only 6 days and I'm already stretched.
That's another trip!!!!

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

It's a WALES trip
I thought about it-but it's only 6 days and I'm already stretched.
That's another trip!!!!

Exactly.  Trust me, I have about a dozen "dream" itineraries for future trips and more than one includes Hoylake and Wallasey.

Anybody care to chime in about Machynys?  

[Tony_Muldoon]

Aberdovey is on your route and shouldnt be missed.
Borth is flat and (I havent played it) from the road looks just OK.

Want to surprise everyone?  This is on route from the North to the South and so doesnt make it on trips to either.  Go and tell me if I was dreaming or not. Magnificent views and great golf.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=30982


Enjoy

[Sean_A]

Wayne & Jeff

I spose my take is a bit different.  If coming from Manchester I would definitely hit Wallasey and/or Hoylake on the way to Bulls Bay (one I haven't seen, but would dearly like to).  You have listed several courses including N Wales, Conwy & Nefyn which are no where near the quality of the above two.  If you want to play an inland course instead then Delamere is hard to beat.

Pay no attention to the nay sayers, Harlech is a good course and will be an interesting contrast because I think it is one of the most difficult courses in the UK. 

Aberdovey is good, I think it is a bit over-rated on this site and not as good as Harlech, but there you go. I spose its worth seeing. The land is quite good, but I don't think the routing took advantage of the site at all - this should be a far better course imo.

It is a definite mistake to skip Tenby for any reason.  Its worth a schedule change to make sure you get a game there.

Ashburnham is another course that gets little attention on gca, but like Tenby, I think it is better than anything in the north.  The club is in the process of beefing the course up right now because it has lost some shine since pro tournies are no longer held there.

Play Pennard twice - it is comfortably the best course in Wales and you will not have more fun anywhere else.  What else would expect me to say?  But the thing is - I believe it!

I went down to play Machynys not long ago.  I wasn't convinced by appearances so walked the course for about an hour.  That was enough - I zipped back to Pennard and played.

Bottom line for me, if you aren't willing to add Wallasey/Hoylake then I would abandon some of the northern tracks in favour of seeing more of the southern ones. 

A few other sleepers that may be of interest in the south:

Clyne - a Colt course just down the road from Pennard.  I haven't played it, but it is meant to be raw Welsh golf.

Cardigan & St Davids have been mentioned and Tony's pix of Cardigan looked very appealing.

Ciao

[Jason McNamara]

Anybody care to chime in about Machynys?  

That's the newish Nicklaus course that hosted the Euro ladies this year (or last)?  From what I saw on TV (I have -not- played it), it's water water everywhere, iirc.  There's probably 20 Welsh courses I'd sooner see, including totally obscure ones such as St. Deiniol, Porthmadog, and the aforementioned (NB Jeff Warne) Borth and Ynyslas.

If you wanted to give Machynys a miss, you'd be right by Ashburnham, which is something like L35 (so not a huge deal if it's out of pocket).  Tenby is also within reach, but you'd drive an hour+ each way.

Also, you could easily do Royal St. David's (Harlech) and Aberdovey in the same day, if your group is gung-ho enough.

Oh, and fwiw Delamere Forest is just 5 mi off the motorway from MAN airport to Conwy, though remember you'll have daylight till almost 10pm.

Finally, I will (as I always do) recommend seeing a castle or two.  The two easiest for you are of course Conwy and Harlech (the latter is better), though you will drive right by Caernarvon (betw Conwy and Nefyn).  Also Caerphilly (with its own early-gunpowder-induced leaning tower) is just north of Cardiff, if you're there at all.  (Another really cool one is Beaumaris, but that's on Angelsey and therefore out of your way.)

[Ed Tilley]

I've played 7 of the courses mentioned in the thread. In the North:

Nefyn & District is in an absolutely stunning setting - as good as you will ever see. The Old course includes the 8 holes on the peninsula which are the very definition of quirky. These must not be missed. In truth, the golf is not top notch and there is a public path to the beach in constant use through the summer. A quick visit to the Ty Coch Inn on the beach below the 12th green is traditional.

















Royal St.Davids is another lovely setting. I would recommend if you have time a visit to Harlech castle overlooking the course. It is, on the whole, pretty flat and does not make use of the wonderful dunes on the site - only the last 4 or 5 holes penetrate the dunes (15 is one of the best holes you will ever play). It is a real test and, whilst not as charming as many courses, is a course I rate very highly.













I don't have photos of the other courses although I know many have been posted before.

Aberdovey is a nice course and it seems silly to play RSD and not Aberdovey - you practically have to go past it to get south. I would play this over Machynys. Aberdovey starts brilliantly with several holes through the dunes but doesn't quite finish the job for me. It moves onto flatter land and I don't think the flat holes are of the same quality as RSD. Well worth a visit though.

Borth & Ynyslas is not, in my opinion worth a detour. It is unbelievably featureless and bleak in places. Add to that the fact that you have no chance of pronouncing the name correctly (the y's sound like u's as in dug), it's definitely not worth a detour.

Tenby is a lovely little track and worth playing over Machynys anyday. It is a bit compact in places and quite a short course but it has charm in abundance. The 3rd and 4th holes are wonderful quirky links holes. The town of Tenby is also lovely - if you do stay there, the Bay of Bengal Indian restaurant practically on the cliff edge is a wonderful setting.

I won't add much to Sean's ode to Pennard save to say it is a fantastic course, although if poor conditioning is a no-no for you then you should steer clear.

Pyle & Kenfig is to use an English football expression 'a game of two halves'. The front nine is nothing special - fun in places, but not worth a detour. The back nine is completely different. The stretch from 11-16 goes through some pretty big dunes and is real top class golf. Given it's proximity to Porthcawl and Southerndown there is really no excuse for missing this.

[Tony_Muldoon]

One other thing.

Buy this before you go.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Under-Milk-Wood-Original-Recording/dp/B000026NW6/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1196847031&sr=8-1

The Welsh can make the English Language sing like no one else.  Put it on when you are doing your between course trips and then when you get to a pub in the evening you'll appreciate the chatter of the "Boyo's" all the more.

I'm not sure there's any plot just a symphony of words.  Not one of them is 'dirty' yet my wife says there's more sex in it than anything she's heard.

"To begin at the beginning: It is spring, moonless night in the small town, starless and bible-black, the cobblestreets silent and the hunched courters'-and-rabbits' wood limping invisible down to the sloeblack, slow, black, crowblack, fishingboat-bobbing sea. "

[Mark Pearce]

If I wastravelling to Wales from Manchester and looking to pick up a game I'd try Kington.  You won't have played anything like it, it's wild, a relatively easy "play in", given you'll have been flying for a long time and, given its proximity to the border could almost be seen as the gateway to Wales.  Certainly the views you'll get of both Engalnd and Wakles (and its hills) are worthy of a trip and the golf is a delight.

[Bill_McBride]

It's a WALES trip
I thought about it-but it's only 6 days and I'm already stretched.
That's another trip!!!!

You can SEE Wales from the wonderful course at Hoylake that is only an hour from Manchester airport!  Doesn't that count?  

[jeffwarne]

Bill,
If I play Hoylake then I can't tell my wife "there's a whole area in England that I've never played"
Besides my guys will have heard of it and that takes all the fun out.
.....and I just had to add a day and change everything to include Bull Bay and Cardigan

[Matt_Ward]

Wayne:

Ditto on the comments made by Ed regarding Tenby. The bulk of what you see at Tenby is OK but you go there for the first four holes -- they are really first rate and, in my mind, the toughest opening stretch you can play in all of Wales.

The par-4 3rd has to rate as one of the best par-4 holes between the distance of 350-400 yards. The green alone is a real peach to hit -- whatever the wind direction is.

Porthcawl is a must play and any visit to Wales needs to include Pennard for a whole host of reasons.

Enjoy your time there and be sure to spend a bit of time in Cardiff -- a great place indeed.

[Jason McNamara]

Ed, thanks for the brilliant photos.  The Harlech shot with the top of the clubhouse (?) looks almost Carne-ish.

In the last Nefyn pic, the tee is a fake turf mat.  Are there other such holes there, or is that the only one?

Oh, and an update.  Abersoch sometimes gets mentioned here as one of those hidden almost-gems, 9 great Vardon seaside holes with 9 not-as-compelling holes subsequently tacked on.  Well, it appears that the club changed the routing, such that the original Vardon holes are now #s 4-12.  Just a heads up for anyone thinking he'll just play the front nine and then move on.

So Jeff, what is the itinerary now?

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