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Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2010, 09:26:50 AM »
It is by far the best of the 4 all -male clubs in Chicago.

Jack,

This is a pretty aggressive statement.  Personally, I'd take Black Sheep and Bob-o-link over Butler, but then again I'm not a big-hitting 2 HDCP.  ;). Funny story about how good today's pro's are for those who've played Butler.  An aquaintance of mine is a Butler member.  He was accompanying Rich Beem a few years back.  When they came to 18 green, the Beemer was preoccupied with watching Michael Jordan, who happened to be standing nearby.  My friend reminded him he had a 3-footer to post a really good score. Rich casually drained it for a course record 62!! I believe this was from the back tees prior to the recent renovation, so it may no longer be the official course record, but for anyone who's played there, this is simply a mindboggling score....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2010, 09:36:08 AM »
It is by far the best of the 4 all -male clubs in Chicago.

Jack,

This is a pretty aggressive statement.  Personally, I'd take Black Sheep and Bob-o-link over Butler, but then again I'm not a big-hitting 2 HDCP.  ;). Funny story about how good today's pro's are for those who've played Butler.  An aquaintance of mine is a Butler member.  He was accompanying Rich Beem a few years back.  When they came to 18 green, the Beemer was preoccupied with watching Michael Jordan, who happened to be standing nearby.  My friend reminded him he had a 3-footer to post a really good score. Rich casually drained it for a course record 62!! I believe this was from the back tees prior to the recent renovation, so it may no longer be the official course record, but for anyone who's played there, this is simply a mindboggling score....

i havent played BOL Jud, but i agree that in terms of the golf course only i much rather prefer B Sheep

and a 62 at Butler:  wow!
197 played, only 3 to go!!

jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2010, 10:07:51 AM »
Paul and Jud,

To the best of my knowledge, as of 2008, the course record from the back tees is 68 (-3).  It was either Mark Hensby or Mark Wilson that did it.  I always get those guys mixed up.  Either way, that's like shooting nothing!!

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2010, 09:25:09 PM »
It is by far the best of the 4 all -male clubs in Chicago.

Jack,

This is a pretty aggressive statement.  Personally, I'd take Black Sheep and Bob-o-link over Butler, but then again I'm not a big-hitting 2 HDCP.  ;). Funny story about how good today's pro's are for those who've played Butler.  An aquaintance of mine is a Butler member.  He was accompanying Rich Beem a few years back.  When they came to 18 green, the Beemer was preoccupied with watching Michael Jordan, who happened to be standing nearby.  My friend reminded him he had a 3-footer to post a really good score. Rich casually drained it for a course record 62!! I believe this was from the back tees prior to the recent renovation, so it may no longer be the official course record, but for anyone who's played there, this is simply a mindboggling score....
Jud,  As any of my close friends will tell you, I have considered joining Bob O Link-not because it is a great golf course-because it's not. It is  a club with a great group of guys and a hell of a fun place to hang out. I can think of at least 5 courses within 15 minutes that are much better, think Skokie, Knollwood, Shoreacres, Conway, Sunset Ridge etc. Blacksheep is nice but do really think that it is in the same class as Butler? If so, my question would be how many times have you played Butler? The experience is completely different at Butler vs Blacksheep. I stand by my original statement bold as it is. Don't get me wrong all 4 of the All Male clubs in Chicago are very good but one is in my opinion in a different class.   Jack

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2010, 10:03:44 PM »
Paul and Jud,

To the best of my knowledge, as of 2008, the course record from the back tees is 68 (-3).  It was either Mark Hensby or Mark Wilson that did it.  I always get those guys mixed up.  Either way, that's like shooting nothing!!

You're right.  That 62 story is a total fallacy from what my sources tell me.

jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2010, 10:17:00 PM »
Ryan,

The 68 is the best score since the course was renovated.

I don't know if the Beem story is true or not, but I know I've read it in a book.  Wasn't that story in "Bud, Sweat, and Tees?"

 

hick

Re: Butler National
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2010, 11:12:09 PM »
Looks more like the entrance to a cemetery.

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2010, 11:12:27 PM »
the 4 all male are Bulter, BOL, Black Sheep, and.........?
197 played, only 3 to go!!

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2010, 12:08:09 AM »
Old elm
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2010, 11:12:56 AM »
It is by far the best of the 4 all -male clubs in Chicago.

Jack,

This is a pretty aggressive statement.  Personally, I'd take Black Sheep and Bob-o-link over Butler, but then again I'm not a big-hitting 2 HDCP.  ;). Funny story about how good today's pro's are for those who've played Butler.  An aquaintance of mine is a Butler member.  He was accompanying Rich Beem a few years back.  When they came to 18 green, the Beemer was preoccupied with watching Michael Jordan, who happened to be standing nearby.  My friend reminded him he had a 3-footer to post a really good score. Rich casually drained it for a course record 62!! I believe this was from the back tees prior to the recent renovation, so it may no longer be the official course record, but for anyone who's played there, this is simply a mindboggling score....
Jud,  As any of my close friends will tell you, I have considered joining Bob O Link-not because it is a great golf course-because it's not. It is  a club with a great group of guys and a hell of a fun place to hang out. I can think of at least 5 courses within 15 minutes that are much better, think Skokie, Knollwood, Shoreacres, Conway, Sunset Ridge etc. Blacksheep is nice but do really think that it is in the same class as Butler? If so, my question would be how many times have you played Butler? The experience is completely different at Butler vs Blacksheep. I stand by my original statement bold as it is. Don't get me wrong all 4 of the All Male clubs in Chicago are very good but one is in my opinion in a different class.   Jack

Jack,

I agree that Bob-o-link is a world class club.  However I think the course holds up pretty well vs. your list of nearby contenders.  Skokie and particularly Shoreacres are clearly in a different league, I'd give Knollwood a slight edge over BOL, only because I've won and lost too much money out there over the years not to, but not necessarily Conway, which I think looks artificial in spots.  And Sunset Ridge? Haven't been out there since the renovations but unless they were world-class, I find this a bit of a stretch...Bottom line, as you delineated, BOL is such a great club that it's hard to seperate the atmosphere and look at the course with a cold-blooded eye....As for Black Sheep vs. Butler, I think it's a greater challenge to design a course that's fun and challenging for all levels of golfer.  Seems to me that if you have enough land and money that it's not particularly difficult to build a brutally hard course to challenge the best players, but which is of no use to 95% of the golfing public.  Granted I've only played Butler twice and Black Sheep once, but based on that sample size I'd say I'd give Black Sheep the edge....I guess you're just more of a Fazio guy than I am... ;)
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2010, 12:13:15 PM »
It is by far the best of the 4 all -male clubs in Chicago.

Jack,

This is a pretty aggressive statement.  Personally, I'd take Black Sheep and Bob-o-link over Butler, but then again I'm not a big-hitting 2 HDCP.  ;). Funny story about how good today's pro's are for those who've played Butler.  An aquaintance of mine is a Butler member.  He was accompanying Rich Beem a few years back.  When they came to 18 green, the Beemer was preoccupied with watching Michael Jordan, who happened to be standing nearby.  My friend reminded him he had a 3-footer to post a really good score. Rich casually drained it for a course record 62!! I believe this was from the back tees prior to the recent renovation, so it may no longer be the official course record, but for anyone who's played there, this is simply a mindboggling score....
Jud,  As any of my close friends will tell you, I have considered joining Bob O Link-not because it is a great golf course-because it's not. It is  a club with a great group of guys and a hell of a fun place to hang out. I can think of at least 5 courses within 15 minutes that are much better, think Skokie, Knollwood, Shoreacres, Conway, Sunset Ridge etc. Blacksheep is nice but do really think that it is in the same class as Butler? If so, my question would be how many times have you played Butler? The experience is completely different at Butler vs Blacksheep. I stand by my original statement bold as it is. Don't get me wrong all 4 of the All Male clubs in Chicago are very good but one is in my opinion in a different class.   Jack

Jack,

I agree that Bob-o-link is a world class club.  However I think the course holds up pretty well vs. your list of nearby contenders.  Skokie and particularly Shoreacres are clearly in a different league, I'd give Knollwood a slight edge over BOL, only because I've won and lost too much money out there over the years not to, but not necessarily Conway, which I think looks artificial in spots.  And Sunset Ridge? Haven't been out there since the renovations but unless they were world-class, I find this a bit of a stretch...Bottom line, as you delineated, BOL is such a great club that it's hard to seperate the atmosphere and look at the course with a cold-blooded eye....As for Black Sheep vs. Butler, I think it's a greater challenge to design a course that's fun and challenging for all levels of golfer.  Seems to me that if you have enough land and money that it's not particularly difficult to build a brutally hard course to challenge the best players, but which is of no use to 95% of the golfing public.  Granted I've only played Butler twice and Black Sheep once, but based on that sample size I'd say I'd give Black Sheep the edge....I guess you're just more of a Fazio guy than I am... ;)

Nice comments guys. Come to think of it the 4 all-male clubs in Chicago make one heck of a "rota!"

Actually, IMO, my favorite of the 4 is Old Elm. There are only a handful of places I can think of that I enjoy playing 36 with a lunch more. Where else can you play a Colt design (his routing) constructed by Donald Ross (his greens) that has been near untouched since it's opened, perfectly conditioned, in about 2.5 hours per round because the course is completly empty, shoot a legit 72 and not feel beat up, and not include the club politics that at are major at at least two of the other clubs.

So in conclusion if I were given the option to join any of the four (obviously doubtful  :) ) I would pick Old Elm hands down.
H.P.S.

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2010, 01:21:47 PM »
Heck, I shot 62 at Butler. . . but then had to finish the last 5 holes.

Not sure I would call it a "fun" golf course because it's so hard, but if you get a chance you should give it a go.

Ed Oden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2010, 01:31:54 PM »
Just to set the record straight, there are FIVE all-male golf clubs in Chicago...  

Reverse Jans?

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2010, 01:48:27 PM »
Butler National is the most difficult course in Chicago. There are more ways to make a 7 than with a pair of dice. The USGA would be there for an Open tomorrow if it was co-ed.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2010, 02:41:35 PM »
One day in 2008 while looping, I saw a member shoot 63 or 64 from the member tees. I think it was 64.  I didn't have his bag that day and I can't remember his name.... but it was a guy that played the tour in the early 70s for a couple years. He made everything imaginable.

He goes out there a few times a week and normally shoots par from the member tees which is around 6700-6800 yards.  Other than that, the best score I personally saw was a 76 from a lefty guest that played out of Exmoor.

jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2010, 02:50:12 PM »
That's gotta be Dave Lind who shot the 64.  

Shivas,

I think that's him.  That was the best score that summer by a mile.  Don't quote me on the 64 because I was running all over the place worrying about my own guy (I was an awesome caddy  ;)), but I just remember he practically shot zero!!

jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2010, 03:38:07 PM »
I'm positive it wasn't Zender that day. 

I think you're correct with Lind. 

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Butler National
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2010, 04:15:16 PM »
Didn't Dave have some kind of neurological problem in the last couple of years that really messed him up?  I played in a scramble with him once.  Not as big a hitter as I had thought he would be, but what a great iron player and putter.

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