[T_MacWood]

I'm only starting to appreciate the feud between these two men.

In an article on Macdonald Bernard Darwin remenisced: "I well remember watching a game at the National golf links when he exclaimed loudly, 'That was a chump shot.' I hinted mildly that it had been a very difficult one and perhaps the player deserved a little sympathy. He answered, 'No--that man's a chump', and there seemed no more to be said."

Darwin on Travis: "...he played silently and dourly; his courage was not that of knight riding gallantly to battle on a prancing palfrey, but rather, as I heard one of his American admirers express it, that of a rat in a trap."

I'm certain there were some who looked upon their quarrel like the Iran-Iraq War...disappointed that it ever had to end.

[TEPaul]

"For my part I do not think the Schnectedy is a mallet. Neither is a wry-neck putter. Neither of these clubs makes the slightest difference in a man's play. It is only his character of mind. There are a few people in this country stupid enought to think, owing to Travis's uncalled for an undignified criticism of his treatment at Sandwich, that this is in the line of retaliation. That can be dismissed without thought. Travis is now putting with a Braid aluminium, and, if anything, putting better than ever.
 
The Royal and Ancient Golf Club maintains an allegiance throughout the world of golf that no other sport has anything like or comparable with it. A regime so honorably and effectively administered in a game that encircles the world, appealing to all classes, should to my mind be conserved with the utmost care and delicacy, and it would be a source of the deepest regret should that allegiance be jeopardized by so small and unnecessary a matter as the interpretation of the word "mallet," which means nothing to the game itself.
                                        Believe me,
                                           Yours faithfully,
                                                Charles B. Macdonald"

[T_MacWood]

TE
Its ashame...it was too little and too late.

Did Macdonald vote to ban the Schenectady in Septemeber 1910?

[TEPaul]

"TE
Its ashame...it was too little and too late."

Tom MacW:

What's a shame and what was too little and too late?

"Did Macdonald vote to ban the Schenectady in Septemeber 1910?"

If after all this and if you really have read the entire chronicle as well as Macdonald's position on the rulings and the entire "mallet" issue which happened to unfortunately include the Schnectedy putter you'd know what Macdonald's position was. Macdonald was not at the Sept. 1910 meeting of the R&A Rules of Golf Committee which confirmed the Committee's May 1910 decision to ban the "mallet" type putter which included the Schnectedy putter primarily because a definition of a conforming golf club had never been drawn up.

There was, however, a clause that was within the USGA's by-laws that stated;

"Competitions shall by played in accordance with the Rules of Golf as adopted by the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews with the rulings and interpretations as adopted by the United States Golf Association."

This clause, one that was apparently recommended to be used by Macdonald ("the compromise") allowed the USGA to avert a schism with the R&A on golf rules while at the same time allowing the USGA not to ban the Schnectedy putter in the US while the Schnectedy putter had been banned by the R&A.

You see, Tom, Macdonald's primary interest was to maintain unity within the rules of golf between the R&A and USGA always. Macdonald never did believe in standardization of balls and implements anyway and so in actuality he never was for the banning of the mallet club (unless it was of the form and used like a two ended carpenter's mallet) or the Schnectedy putter. Basically he always thought the entire issue was a waste of time and unnecessary.

What he really wanted to do is maintain unity within the rules between the R&A and USGA and his compromise allowing the Schnectedy putter in the US (although not ideal to him) basically achieved that.

I have no real idea what Travis was up to on this issue except to suggest that the R&A ruling banning the mallet club, the interpretation of which unfortunately included the Schnectedy had something to do with retaliation towards him---a fact that Macdonald always strongly denied.

It also appears that Travis in some of his articles on this general subject of unity within the rules of golf between the R&A and USGA (which was the much larger issue of which the mallet club and Schnectedy putter was only a part) may have been suggesting that the USGA should break away from the R&A's rules of golf and form their own rules of golf. This very thing was always complete anathema to Macdonald and may have been the primary reason he came to completely disagree with Travis thereby creating a complete rift with him.

If you have not yet or cannot understand this important distinction of Macdonald’s feeling about the over-riding importance of maintaining unity within the rules of golf world-wide vs. this far more inconsequential issue (to him) of the Schnectedy then I don’t know what more there is to discuss here.

[T_MacWood]

TE
A simple yes, no or I don't know would have sufficed.

Are you certain Macdonald was not at the September R&A meeting?

The reason I ask about his postion on the September R&A vote is due to his comments in a letter from Novemeber 1910, in which agrees with Hutchinson's view that they had no choice but to ban the club to remain consistent with the rules of golf.

[TEPaul]

"TE
A simple yes, no or I don't know would have sufficed."

Tom MacW:

I don't think so. It wasn't a simple issue so I doubt a simple answer would suffice.

"Are you certain Macdonald was not at the September R&A meeting?"

I'm not as certain as if I were there obviously but it looks from Macdonald's book and the letters he wrote to the R&A Rules Committee and the letters he received back that he was not at the Sept. meeting in 1910. The Schnectedy was effectively banned by the R&A Rules Committee in May 1910 anayway, the meeting in Sept merely confirmed that May decision.

"The reason I ask about his postion on the September R&A vote is due to his comments in a letter from Novemeber 1910, in which agrees with Hutchinson's view that they had no choice but to ban the club to remain consistent with the rules of golf."

That's probably very true but you need to understand a little better, I think, the chain of events that led to those comments and you probably need to understand a lot better the way things were done by the R&A and USGA in those days regarding Rules issues, particularly balls and implements rules issues. It was nothing like it is today---as back then there was no definition of what an acceptable or unacceptable golf club was as there is today. The R&A simply depended on questions regarding club acceptability and then the committee would simply give their opinion on it. Compared to today that was basically decision making in a bit of a vaccuum and that's precisely why Macdonald probably agreed with Hutchinson that once they wrote that Rule in 1908 emanating from the Nga Motu and Pickering questions on mallet clubs they didn't properly define what an acceptable club was and wasnt so logically the Schnectedy fell under the general description of a "mallet" and was also banned by the R&A to Macdonald's chagrin. But they had that vague ruling and wording from 1908 and Macdonald understood they had to abide by it. His compromise recommendation for the Schnectedy avoiding its ban in America is basically a separate matter that fell under an existing  by-law clause of the USGA's. That, for starters, is a really important point for you to know to be able to  understand how and why this issue played out the way it did.

Macdonald was never for banning any golf club that I can see, particularly the Schnectedy or any other "wry-necked" or even "mallet" club unless possibly it was something like a carprenter's mallet where the golfer could use either end (this to him was probably somewhat akin to the USGA's banning of a pool cue as a golf implement in the late 1890s). Basically Macdonald didn't really see the purpose in banning clubs, particularly ones that had been in use for a number of years as he really didn't think anything he could see that had beenin use would materially improve a very difficult game.

You don't have a copy of Macdonald's book do you? If you did I can't see why you keep asking me questions about what he said on this entire matter---why don't you just read it yourself and you can see all this for yourself?

[T_MacWood]

TE
I've had Macdonald's book for fifteen years. I'm quite familar with the case he presents in the book. I've also read dozens of contemporaneous articles and editorials on the issue. I believe Macdonald's first public comment on the issue was not until December 1910....months after the shit had hit the fan.

The vagueness of the 1908 rules on equipment led to the question if a croquet mallet was golf club, just as similar questions had arisen over a billiard cue or cricket bat being a golf club. The answer on all three was the same...no. If they believed the Schenectady was an illegal golf club why not deal with it when writing the rules in 1908? The timing of the Pickerington inquirey on the heels of Travis's controversial article led to speculation that the rules committee was out for the Schenectady. A number of people on both sides of the pond thought the R&A had gone way to far for no good reason at all.

[JSlonis]

Tom,

If there was indeed a feud between these men, you might be interested to know that at the Walter Travis Memorial Tourney at Garden City GC, one of the tournament Flights is named the C.B. Macdonald Cup.

[TEPaul]

Jamie:

Don't say that or Tom MacW is going to accuse GCGC of trying to "sanitize" something and even you'll probably be guilty of covering something up since you play in the Travis Memorial.  

Personally, I think GCGC should think about renaming the tournament the Emmet Memorial and just expunging Travis's memory from GCGC and Long Island altogether. I'll take care of the fact that Emmet was a raging homosexual dandy and Travis was a virulent homophobe! Or were they the other way around in disguise? Maybe Tom can dig up something on that!

Whichever way it was the 12th should be completely restored and that pond on #16 should go!! And when it comes to NGLA they're doing a wonderful job of restoring that course, now all they need to do is restore C.B.'s "Hen House" and restock it with some modern NYC demimondes and everything will be back to the way it once was!  

[JSlonis]

TEPaul,

The close up photo of the original 12th green that hangs in the clubhouse is incredible.  I can't imagine what that hole, and in particular the greensite, played like.  

[TEPaul]

Jamie:

Just imagine trying to play into the seat of about a 5,000sf easy chair from around 190 yards and if you missed the seat trying to recovery to it over some really big upholstered arms! I say if they can't manage to restore those arms so they can be mow close enough to get that green rolling about 13 on the stimpmeter they shouldn't do the restoration at all!  

[George_Bahto]

Tommy: it was Hen Coop .......... I can't talk about it - - was sworn to secrecy - hah

[T_MacWood]

Jamie
Macdonald was a long time prominent member of GCGC. Ironically Macdonald and Hutchinson had a match at GCGC in 1910 during the Schenectady fiasco, against Fred Hereshoff and L. Livingstone...perhaps Travis couldn't make it.

Emmet was another famous member who had a feud with the Old Man.

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